Salmond and Sturgeon Want the English Fish for More Fat Subsidies

wotsthat

elantan wrote: »

Gonna be honest ... have been having some disturbing conversations with Yes voters recently ... Nicola needs to be very careful she doesn't alienate too many Yes voters or she will find she will loose their votes

She has said the timing of the next referendum push depends on her judgement as to the number of no voters converted to yes. No mention of yes voters changing their minds. I wondered if she was taking the people who voted for independence for granted or could only envisage a one way shift.

skintmacflint

Generali wrote: »

Interesting that up until a week or so ago that the SNP seemed to be compiling a list of reasons for a new referendum whereas now they seem to be compiling reasons not to have one.

They have a Holyrood election to defend based on their 8 years of devolved government. Not to mention polling figures over the past year have shown there is a credible possibility, their simple tactics of posturing on anti Westminster/anti austerity spin is no longer working to increase their numbers. Which seem to have stuck just below the 50% mark with the exception of 1 poll which gave Yes 53%.

So a new temporary facade of conciliatiory approach.

skintmacflint

elantan wrote: »

Gonna be honest ... have been having some disturbing conversations with Yes voters recently ... Nicola needs to be very careful she doesn't alienate too many Yes voters or she will find she will loose their votes

Tell them not to worry their little heads about it. Remind them one of her main political skills is looking very genuine and sounding honest when saying something she doesn't mean or believe.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

elantan wrote: »

Gonna be honest ... have been having some disturbing conversations with Yes voters recently ...

Good.

But I think Nicola is already aware.

Hence why she's very publicly courting Unionist votes for the SNP in May and taking another Indyref right out of the picture.

Nicola needs to be very careful she doesn't alienate too many Yes voters or she will find she will loose their votes

The SNP could pin a yellow rosette to a Donkey and it would win at the moment.

45% for Indy plus a FFTP voting system while the 55% of Unionists are split between 3 parties guarantees that.

But that moment may be a tad shorter lasting than some had hoped.

No party remains invincible forever.... And the current multiple accusations of sleaze and incompetence are probably only the beginning.

What was it Nicola said?

Oh yes....

"a party that is now in its second term of office cannot avoid responsibility for its own failings"

For once, I agree with Nicola....;)

kabayiri

Generali wrote: »

...

The simplest thing to do would be to grant FFA for 2 years in advance of a future vote while giving Scotland full borrowing powers too. A budget deficit of ~16% pa might be serviceable or might not. We'd soon find out though.

Apparently, the "negative" political types will give you a thousand reasons why this is not possible. Perhaps this is the reality...the SNP is only a party bound together by negative opposition to various things.

Let Scotland be responsible for its finances I say. Run it as a trial, like you suggest.

Personally, I'd be super impressed if they were able to run their economy with efficiency, balancing the books. The ruling party would attract a lot of praise South of the border.

Shakethedisease

elantan wrote: »

Gonna be honest ... have been having some disturbing conversations with Yes voters recently ... Nicola needs to be very careful she doesn't alienate too many Yes voters or she will find she will loose their votes

To whom though ? If they're committed pro-indy types there's no other party to deliver another referendum through the ballot box ( ie it has to be mandated as a majority party ). If they're more concerned about policy decisions and day to day issues in Holyrood.. then apart from Green, there's little alternative in play at the moment.

Scottish Labour is in a real mess and all over the place. Lib Dems have sunk like a stone, SSP and Rise are very small in numbers and the Tories retain their ( small ) core vote. Which they're hoping now to bump up a few points by being re-running the referendum campaign and running as the only 'true unionist party' in Scotland. Which actually, thinking about it.. if Scottish Labour decide that it's ok to be out and proud 'pro-indy' and still be a member... they actually may well be !

Shakethedisease

kabayiri wrote: »

Apparently, the "negative" political types will give you a thousand reasons why this is not possible. Perhaps this is the reality...the SNP is only a party bound together by negative opposition to various things.

Let Scotland be responsible for its finances I say. Run it as a trial, like you suggest.

Personally, I'd be super impressed if they were able to run their economy with efficiency, balancing the books. The ruling party would attract a lot of praise South of the border.

It's not 'negative political types' it's what happened a few months ago. FFA was voted down to be put on the Scotland Bill... twice. By the Tories/Labour and Lib Dems. Once the Scotland Bill goes through it'll be 2017 at the earliest anything in it will come into play. What you're proposing is yet another Scotland Bill with FFA included. FFA which would take years to implement to the satisfaction of all 4 governments/parliaments/assemblies.

It's not going to happen. So you probably need to let go of that particular fantasy now. Devolved Governments and Westminster are NOT the same thing. You seem to be under some sort of weird impression that they are. It's not negative politics to point it out. It's fact. As it is that FFA isn't coming our way any time soon.

elantan

Shakethedisease wrote: »

To whom though ? If they're committed pro-indy types there's no other party to deliver another referendum through the ballot box ( ie it has to be mandated as a majority party ). If they're more concerned about policy decisions and day to day issues in Holyrood.. then apart from Green, there's little alternative in play at the moment.

Scottish Labour is in a real mess and all over the place. Lib Dem

s have sunk like a stone, SSP and Rise are very small in numbers and the Tories retain their ( small ) core vote. Which they're hoping now to bump up a few points by being re-running the referendum campaign and running as the only 'true unionist party' in Scotland. Which actually, thinking about it.. if Scottish Labour decide that it's ok to be out and proud 'pro-indy' and still be a member... they actually may well be !

No one ... not voting at all ... especially in another indy ref

. Although to be fair I ain't voting either ... but my reasons where different from theirs

elantan

See ma phone ... is does ma nut in sometimes

Shakethedisease

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Good.

What was it Nicola said?

Oh yes....

"a party that is now in its second term of office cannot avoid responsibility for its own failings"

For once, I agree with Nicola....;)

Oh Gawd lol... if you think that SNP 'failings' haven't been pointed out and the SNP called to take responsibility for each and every single thing they've ever done, said, legislated for or made mistakes on.. in the last few years. You're deluded. There's never anything else in the papers or on tv.

You might want to stop and wonder sometime, about why they're heading for a third term, and a possible second majority in a system designed to prevent a majority government ? And I'll give you a clue, Tories, Labour and Lib Dems are seen as a far worse option, and about half of Scots voters don't want any them in power.

You're right that no party goes on forever. But it took about 40 years for Labour to be dislodged as the 'pin a rosette' in party in Scotland. So there's plenty of time yet.