Salmond and Sturgeon Want the English Fish for More Fat Subsidies

CLAPTON

elantan wrote: »

That's not true .. my son doesn't want independence he wants federalism but he voted Yes as he just knew they wouldn't keep their word, he wanted a third option on the ballot, so did Alex but it wasn't allowed .... I know many yes voters that want federalism actually ... admittedly a lot of them now want full independence but last year they wanted federalism but voted Yes as it was the closest or best option for them

another total load of nonsense


some-one wants federalism so votes for independence : infantile

.string.

There is a thoughtful comparison between Devolution and Federalism HERE.

Basically Federalism is a bit of a red herring.

wotsthat

Shakethedisease wrote: »

An old Labour message that most of the Labour party don't endorse any more. In just two weeks we've gone from Anti-Trident, Anti-austerity, Anti-Syria strikes and possibly working with the SNP.

To, not even discussing Trident, 'yes George we'll vote for your Fiscal responsibility thing', possibly support air strikes in Syria ( with caveats ) and SNP, oooooh aren't they bad.. let's throw some misinformed mud their way and hope some sticks.

Pretty much bored. I'd say.

I think Sturgeon will be interested even if you're not.

What the SNP must be hoping is their voters are more interested in independence than left wing politics because an old labour message has the potential to take the support of those who aren't too fussed about independence but fancy a bit more socialism.

That's why the next referendum question is so difficult for them - the last referendum was divisive, expensive and it was a once in a generation deal. Try for an early referendum and the SNP lose credibility, look like liars and might just p**s people off who haven't got over the last one yet.

On the other hand they might never be in such a strong position again. What if labour make a comeback, Tory policy makes Scots even richer or the SNP are just enjoying a moment in the sun like the Lib Dems.

I might not be a fan of the SNP but they're not daft enough to think every permutation of outcome will be good for them even though the odd few of their supporters might think that way.

Shakethedisease

wotsthat wrote: »

I think Sturgeon will be interested even if you're not.

What the SNP must be hoping is their voters are more interested in independence than left wing politics because an old labour message has the potential to take the support of those who aren't too fussed about independence but fancy a bit more socialism.

That's why the next referendum question is so difficult for them - the last referendum was divisive, expensive and it was a once in a generation deal. Try for an early referendum and the SNP lose credibility, look like liars and might just p**s people off who haven't got over the last one yet.

On the other hand they might never be in such a strong position again. What if labour make a comeback, Tory policy makes Scots even richer or the SNP are just enjoying a moment in the sun like the Lib Dems.

I might not be a fan of the SNP but they're not daft enough to think every permutation of outcome will be good for them even though the odd few of their supporters might think that way.

No, most of us are well aware that the timing of another referendum is crucial. That Labour might make a comeback or that this may be the 'high water mark' for the SNP. Well aware.

However, Corbyn sadly at the moment isn't taking his party with him. And he's been very disappointing regarding Scottish issues ( for the 'lefties' )so far.

How the Labour conference voted in favour of Trident renewal.....A little-noticed paragraph in a foreign policy report committed the party to retaining the nuclear weapons system.... But the conference in fact went further than merely not debating Trident. In a little-noticed vote yesterday, it endorsed full renewal.

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2015/09/how-labour-conference-voted-favour-trident-renewal

It's also worth noting that most left wingers in Scotland, were (on the whole) those very same voters who voted for independence last year as Alex Massie points out below. It'll take a lot to swing that sort of commitment backwards towards a pro-Union, pro-Trident, pro-airstrikes Labour party. Corbyn seems almost incidental, unless his party starts getting behind his actual policies 100%. He hasn't made the best of starts. But he's got time on his side for now.

... It was past time, he suggested, that voters understood that the SNP are no kind of socialist revolutionaries.

Which will not come as any great surprise to most Scots. That’s part of the point and one of the reasons why the nationalists have been trusted with the keys to power. They’re no-one’s idea of militant Trots. Middle Scotland – a large constituency, by the way – is just about as immune to Spartism as Middle England...
...And how will Jeremy Corbyn address this? Well, he won’t. How can he when most of the people in Scotland who think like Jeremy Corbyn voted for independence last year? They’ve given up on Britain to the extent they ever believed in it in the first place.

..I write this as a Labour voter

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2015/09/jocky-come-home-a-labour-misery-drama-that-will-flop/

elantan

Been keeping up with the labour news ... sad stuff ... I had hoped we would've had a real opposition to ensure the SNP are kept on their toes ( all ruling parties need kept on their toes) but the way it looks now ... nae chance, don't think they are gonna pullout back after that disaster tbh

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

BREAKING NEWS:

Police have launched a mortgage fraud investigation into SNP MP Michelle Thomson

She has resigned her shadow business role

Remember she was also the head of Business for Scotlqnd during the referendum campaign....

Shockingly bad error of judgement and vetting process from the SNP

elantan

Oooo Michelle Thompson has been suspended from the SNP party ... interesting

wotsthat

Shakethedisease wrote: »

It's also worth noting that most left wingers in Scotland, were (on the whole) those very same voters who voted for independence last year as Alex Massie points out below. It'll take a lot to swing that sort of commitment backwards towards a pro-Union, pro-Trident, pro-airstrikes Labour party. Corbyn seems almost incidental, unless his party starts getting behind his actual policies 100%. He hasn't made the best of starts. But he's got time on his side for now.

That's convenient - all the left wingers are so keen on independence they wouldn't vote for a newly refurbished left wing labour party.

Labour lost 40 Scottish seats at the last election. They can win them back. We've seen how quickly things can change. You might think Corbyn is good for independence but you'd better hope the next leader is too because Corbyn hasn't got time on his side. The SNP leadership are brainstorming these scenarios even if you aren't. They literally have nothing else higher up their priority than formulating the path to independence and contemplating multiple 'what if' scenarios.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

http://pic.twitter.com/qZpxIy5ohc

Heh heh.....

Shakey must have been guest editing the national today.

Generali

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

AH HA HA....

Shakey must have been guest editing the national today.

Is that a parody? Surely someone has photoshopped that.