Salmond and Sturgeon Want the English Fish for More Fat Subsidies

Shakethedisease

.string. wrote: »

Stop being paranoid Shakey, you should have noticed that I wrote that I was not stating that you had claimed the vote was rigged. I also wrote that I thought you would agree with what I saying

I also agree that there are too many personal insults, specifically that they go beyond the convention of trashing opinion. For example I thought the use of the word "vile" to describe the nice Mumof2 was beyond that convention' as was the use of f*****g a few pages ago (for balance); and just to be sure you don't misread that, no --- I am not claiming that you used those words.

So I won't apologise for something I did not write. So I'm glad you are still breathing, albeit fire and brimstone.

In that case I apologise to you if I got the wrong end of the stick. And yes, am still breathing, however during that gym session yesterday there were a few moments I wasn't quite sure..

CLAPTON

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Well it's fact now. Tory rebels did indeed vote with Labour and the SNP. So perhaps I wasn't certifiable after all.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-government-defeated-over-purdah-rules-for-poll-10490484.html

excellent news, the SNP voting in favour of a fairer EU vote and in line with the 'OUT' Tories.

Shakethedisease

CLAPTON wrote: »

excellent news, the SNP voting in favour of a fairer EU vote and in line with the 'OUT' Tories.

More to do with the fact that 'purdah' was completely ignored during the ref... so we had 'Vow's', 'near federalism' and loads of stuff from three party leaders and one ex-prime minister being announced. Despite 100,000's of votes already having been cast.

The time period prevents central and local government from making announcements about any new or controversial government initiatives (such as modernisation initiatives or administrative and legislative changes) which could be seen to be advantageous to any candidates or parties in the forthcoming election.

I doubt the government will take much notice of this vote and will get round it again when the time comes as they did with the ref. But at least the 'principle' will be there re purdah. It something that's there for a purpose in levelling the playing field somewhat during elections/referendums. The SNP and Labour were right imo to vote the way they did on this one. Nice to see the 'OUT' rebels joining them.

CLAPTON

Shakethedisease wrote: »

More to do with the fact that 'purdah' was completely ignored during the ref... so we had 'Vow's', 'near federalism' and loads of stuff from three party leaders and one ex-prime minister being announced. Despite 100,000's of votes already having been cast.



I doubt the government will take much notice of this vote and will get round it again when the time comes as they did with the ref. But at least the 'principle' will be there re purdah. It something that's there for a purpose in levelling the playing field somewhat during elections/referendums. The SNP and Labour were right imo to vote the way they did on this one. Nice to see the 'OUT' rebels joining them.

that's right : we want to do as much as possible to achieve that all important YES/OUT vote : once again we are united

skintmacflint

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Oh I'm up for debating those... as soon as you list a few specifics. I haven't yet heard any concrete tax/economic announcements as yet. And I did look ( nothing apart from Nicola's 'overall' speech the other day, the rest are just the SNP 'could' and 'may' stories ).

Why don't you list a few actual specifics and link to an article or two for info, rather than just cite vague hand wavy stuff and we can talk about them then ? The SNP will be damned if they do, and damned if they don't in a lot of things. Media wise anyway. But I for one am happy to debate them with you. No probs.

I will if the Sturgeon, Swinney or SNP central ever state in detail what they are. So far all they've stated is nice sound bites, with news of more task forces Being set up.

I read all the way through a Paper Sturgeon proudly issued at the start of the year. Found nothing but vague sound bites. in it. Was so unimpressive I can't even remember the name of the thing now , but it filled plenty of pages.

But as I said I wait with baited breath. At my age, beginning to look like like the only discussion I'll be having about them is in the afterlife. Lol.

Shakethedisease

skintmacflint wrote: »

I will if the Sturgeon, Swinney or SNP central ever state in detail what they are. So far all they've stated is nice sound bites, with news of more task forces Being set up.

I read all the way through a Paper Sturgeon proudly issued at the start of the year. Found nothing but vague sound bites. in it. Was so unimpressive I can't even remember the name of the thing now , but it filled plenty of pages.

But as I said I wait with baited breath. At my age, beginning to look like like the only discussion I'll be having about them is in the afterlife. Lol.

Lol.. don't be daft. The conference is next month and the election next May. I guess there will be a load of announcements between both of them.

I do think there's a problem in that when it comes to the SNP that most concentrate 100% on them and what they have/will offer or not.. without doing any sort of comparison with the alternatives on offer. David Torrance and Alex Massie seem to make a very good living out of it after all. Never, ever addressing what it is that the other Scottish parties have to say and policies in comparison. And prefer dancing on pins with the SNP instead. Every policy minutely taken apart and the slightest nuances of 'what could' and 'what may' happen projected forward, sometimes years in advance.

I often wonder if it ever crosses their minds that people will look at articles like those they write on the SNP.. think 'oh am not sure I like that at all !!!.. What's Labour doing about it' ?..( quick search ) laugh, then put the X in the box next to the SNP when the election rolls round..

There will be a lot of media attention when the SNP do make their announcements. That's fair enough. What's missing imo, is a full comparison with the other parties on the same policies. Don't you agree ? Scottish Labour ( and the rest ) will scoff and have hysterics if taxes go up OR down. But we've yet to hear anything at all about what they'd do. That's where they, and most media commentators are going wrong. People need a choice in front of them. And faced with a party offering stated policies .. a) like, b) quite like c) not sure about that policy d) do NOT agree with that one..... and a party offering vague policies a) nothing much b) nothing at all c ) SNP are crap d ) please just vote for us because the SNP are crap...

It's not a difficult choice.;) Any ideas on what Scottish Labour or Scottish Conservatives would do with those new tax powers by the way ? Why don't we compare..

Generali

Shakethedisease wrote: »

There will be a lot of media attention when the SNP do make their announcements. That's fair enough. What's missing imo, is a full comparison with the other parties on the same policies. Don't you agree ? Scottish Labour ( and the rest ) will scoff and have hysterics if taxes go up OR down. But we've yet to hear anything at all about what they'd do.

That is the great (only?) advantage of opposition, you don't have to put any policy alternatives up unless there's an election in the offing. When governing you make yourself a hostage to fortune with every decision.

.string.

Shakethedisease wrote: »

More to do with the fact that 'purdah' was completely ignored during the ref... so we had 'Vow's', 'near federalism' and loads of stuff from three party leaders and one ex-prime minister being announced. Despite 100,000's of votes already having been cast.

Oh come, be fair, don't forget that the "White Paper" was funded by the Scottish Government and that during the Referendum Salmon and Sturgeon et al were campaigning all over the place, with The Scottish Goverment in full spate.

Thank you for your last post aimed at me.

.string.

On another aspect:

Should the regional Goverments be barred from commenting when there is an election in London? Should the UK Government be barred from commenting when there is an election in Scotland?

The answer - Politics is an inexact process.

skintmacflint

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Lol.. don't be daft. The conference is next month and the election next May. I guess there will be a load of announcements between both of them.

I do think there's a problem in that when it comes to the SNP that most concentrate 100% on them and what they have/will offer or not.. without doing any sort of comparison with the alternatives on offer. David Torrance and Alex Massie seem to make a very good living out of it after all. Never, ever addressing what it is that the other Scottish parties have to say and policies in comparison. And prefer dancing on pins with the SNP instead. Every policy minutely taken apart and the slightest nuances of 'what could' and 'what may' happen projected forward, sometimes years in advance.

I often wonder if it ever crosses their minds that people will look at articles like those they write on the SNP.. think 'oh am not sure I like that at all !!!.. What's Labour doing about it' ?..( quick search ) laugh, then put the X in the box next to the SNP when the election rolls round..

There will be a lot of media attention when the SNP do make their announcements. That's fair enough. What's missing imo, is a full comparison with the other parties on the same policies. Don't you agree ? Scottish Labour ( and the rest ) will scoff and have hysterics if taxes go up OR down. But we've yet to hear anything at all about what they'd do. That's where they, and most media commentators are going wrong. People need a choice in front of them. And faced with a party offering stated policies .. a) like, b) quite like c) not sure about that policy d) do NOT agree with that one..... and a party offering vague policies a) nothing much b) nothing at all c ) SNP are crap d ) please just vote for us because the SNP are crap...

It's not a difficult choice.;) Any ideas on what Scottish Labour or Scottish Conservatives would do with those new tax powers by the way ? Why don't we compare..

Nonsense to suggest only SNP are put under the microscope on policies. Unless your life stops and starts in Scotland, mine doesn't. If anything SNP have gotten away with many things up here, due to ineffective mealy mouthed opposition from most of our MSPS, and the fact it proves very difficult to get certain info from our government without involving official arbitrators.

Once again you seem to have misinterpreted my comment. Several times the Sturgeon has argued Scotland can grow her economy to cover our financial black hole caused by higher public spending. I'm waiting to hear how it is to be done. Certainly her Paper Scotland's Economic Strategy 2015 (I looked it up) doesn't reveal her policies to promote this.

And let's not forget, Independence if won, would be 6 months from now. She must have known a couple of years ago what plans and policies were needed to be put in place. And they are nowhere to be found or seen. Please don't insult me with the soundbite of she needed control of all fiscal levers from Independence to achieve this. If she'd any innovative plans at all, they'd have been shouted from the rooftops in a torrent of successive ' If only ' whines from her and her band of new SNP MPs over the past year.

Same for her guarantee of social justice and improving the lives of all those in alleged relative poverty in Scotland. Eg in areas such as Glasgow, North Ayrshire, Dundee, where relative poverty and social deprivation has been the norm for the past 35 years.

By demanding devolved control of full welfare policies to Scotland, the implication is she will either improve and increase them. Certainly the White Paper had nothing in it. But I know several new SNP supporters who are definitely expecting them for next year. So let's hear it from Nic , what she will improve, how she will pay for it and her other plans. Only relevant one I can think of is her enforced state guardians and soon to be enforced state nursery care. Which is an under the radar attempt to change the mindset of future generations . ( She's been very naughty on this one tsk tsk) Neither does it help today's alleged impoverished.

As for her manifesto promises etc, well they're much of the same, or mirror other parties. With some anti Tory, Labour, Westminster rhetoric cobbled in. Read her Nov 2014 SNP conference address without your SNP goggles and ears on. Once you remove , repeated anti Tory, Labour, Westminster swipes, emotive misleading poverty figures, reminders of what SNP allege to have done, there is nothing much left other than some nice fluffy soundbites.

As for what the Conservatives and Labour will offer to do with taxes and welfare next year, will wait and see. Not that it matters for the moment.But they haven't been promising the world on a plate with a nice doily and cupcake thrown in. SNP have for several years.