Salmond and Sturgeon Want the English Fish for More Fat Subsidies

.string.

Shakethedisease wrote: »

1) Scotland having much more devolved, yet Barnett or a form of the block grant staying in place is definitely not popular. You're lying to yourself if you think this would be so. Under a 'federal' arrangement however, a block grant would stay. Under FFA, it would go.. along with the union most probably.

2) Checks and balances were talking about when one area is in subsidy it contributes to those in deficit. And vice versa within the union. The article I posted from Gordon McIntyre-Kemp was pointing out this would be the case. ).

Scotland will have new limited borrowing powers this year.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-26245684

3) Feel free. But it makes you look childish imo. Is hard to take someone seriously when they start playground-seque 'name calling'.

4) I'm afraid in Scotland it was Osborne that was viewed as deceitful. Currency union may well have been problematic. But, I could see the logic of it to start with ( balance of payments/no big shock to the system etc ).. but it was vastly overegged to the point Scotland wasn't allowed to use the pound at ALL. Which we knew was total bunkum.

But no, they won't make that mistake again. Nor the EU 'question'. Which now also seems a total load of cobblers since the Tories/UKIP are going to run a referendum on leaving anyway. I agree it's not likely that the UK will vote to leave. However, the fact that it's even being held after 2 years of 'Scotland will have to leave the EU if there's a Yes vote' emblazoned on every newspaper... Well, there's a fair few must feel like total fools now. I don't really wish to rerun the ref campaign to be honest. But, re the EU they won't make that mistake again either..

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/alex-salmond-appointed-as-snps-foreign-affairs-spokesman-in-westminster-10247018.html

On 1. - It's not clear what you're point is. I was referring to fiscal checks and balances being popular, responding to your comment on the same subject; you seem to have wandered off.

On 2.

Scotland will have new limited borrowing powers this year.

Exactly, they will be limited aka subject to checks and balances.

On 3. As long as the SNP proposes fantasy scenarios, In afraid you will have to live with them being ridiculed. You'll notice that as this parliament unfold no doubt.

On 4.

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Scotland wasn't allowed to use the pound at ALL.

I am surprised you write that since it is not true, no-one said Scotland could not use the Pound outside a currency union, just that it was very ill advised. I know that SNP-speak can't face the truth but you should know better than to rehash old spin.


On 5. Salmon as Foreign Affairs Spokesman, I can't help chuckling over that; does that mean he'll be diplomatic to the English?

Shakethedisease

.string. wrote: »

On 1. - It's not clear what you're point is. I was referring to fiscal checks and balances being popular, responding to your comment on the same subject; you seem to have wandered off.

The checks and balances I was talking about ( as was the article ) was about the distribution of cash throughout the UK as long as Scotland remains a part of the union. Federalisation would mean the block grant would remain. FFA would negate the block grant, but also most likely, the union itself.

On 2.

Exactly, they will be limited aka subject to checks and balances.

See above. It was yourself that wandered off a little into 'Natland'. Talking about borrowing and debt repayments etc. None of which was covered in the Federalisation/FFA article in any depth.

On 3. As long as the SNP proposes fantasy scenarios, In afraid you will have to live with them being ridiculed. You'll notice that as this parliament unfold no doubt.

The SNP can only propose FFA or much in the way further powers. If those proposals are indeed ridiculed, then it doesn't say much for the way Westminster works. Given that this is what most Scots seem to want, and have done in every single opinion poll for the last few years. So ridicule away...

On 4.
I am surprised you write that since it is not true, no-one said Scotland could not use the Pound outside a currency union, just that it was very ill advised. I know that SNP-speak can't face the truth but you should know better than to rehash old spin.

Yes they did. In fact Scottish Labour were going door to door with big pound coins with Alex Salmond stamped on them saying so. And they delivered a huge one to Bute House also. While the better informed knew that what they referred to was indeed a currency union. It was put across, very much that if Scotland left the union, it left the pound.



Keep the UK, Keep the Pound

Scottish independence: 'Yes' vote means leaving pound, says Osborne

Osborne is serious. An independent Scotland won’t be keeping the pound

Scots MPs say independent Scotland can’t use pound

There were 1000's of the above headlines between Feb and Sept. So you were wrong on that. It was one of BetterTogether's main points ( and they didn't bother mentioning what was meant was actually a currency union ).

On 5. Salmon as Foreign Affairs Spokesman, I can't help chuckling over that; does that mean he'll be diplomatic to the English?

Yawn. He'll do just fine. He's an old hand at the Westminster game.

Shakethedisease

CLAPTON wrote: »

perception is all................. so facts don't matter to you at all?
when budget is voted on in Holyrood, is it one MP one vote : just like Westminster or not?

In Westminster there is a committee system where detail can be considered.

How many Holyrood cabinet ministers are from parties other than SNP?

I have no idea what you're trying to say. Are you saying that within the devolved government, that the SNP go out of their way to ignore huge swathes of MSP's that represent a particular geographical region and their electorate's wishes ? And then laugh about how 'little influence and say' they'll have over the course of the next five years ?

Seriously ?

Give us some examples where non SNP concerned are considered in Holyrood; how are people who think endless borrowing is a bad thing 'included' in the Holyrood system? Or are they 'ignored'?


Yes I know you want to borrow, borrow, borrow and never ever have to repay the debt: only Scotland has made it into a racist issues rather than a different view of economics.

That is not really a Scottish versa English matter is it? I'm sure there are some people in Scotland that doubt the merits of borrowing more and more.

In every democracy in the world the 'majority' get to have their way : exactly as happens in Scotland.
No different at all.

Again, the SNP have no intention of ignoring large geographical areas of Scotland because they 'voted the wrong way'. They certainly haven't done so over the previous eight years. And I certainly haven't ever seen or read any of them laughing and giggling... over the fact that large geographical area's of the electorate and their wishes are set to be completely ignored as much as possible within the Scottish parliament. And deliberately so.

Because that's what Froggit at the top of the page was alluding to ? Is not exactly good for the union is it ?

Theyre more like a flea on the dogs back right now.......bit of an annoyance every now and again, but no real trouble or influence.

No Clapton. I can't ever imagine a Scottish Government viewing any of it's MSP's, or part of it's electorate as Froggit does above.

However there is light at the end of the tunnel : after SNP victory next year : demand for new referendum : refused : SNP run their own Scottish referendum
who knows the result but let us join together and hope it is a YES and leads to a real one and separation asap.

Amen to that. Patience is wearing very thin on both sides, and we're probably entering the end-game over the next few years. The political union has split already. Just all the money/debt to be divided and divvyed up before the final goodbye...:p

CLAPTON

Shakethedisease wrote: »

I have no idea what you're trying to say. Are you saying that within the devolved government, that the SNP go out of their way to ignore huge swathes of MSP's that represent a particular geographical region and their electorate's wishes ? And then laugh about how 'little influence and say' they'll have over the course of the next five years ?

Seriously ?

Again, the SNP have no intention of ignoring large geographical areas of Scotland because they 'voted the wrong way'. They certainly haven't done so over the previous eight years. And I certainly haven't ever seen or read any of them laughing and giggling... over the fact that large geographical area's of the electorate and their wishes are set to be completely ignored as much as possible within the Scottish parliament. And deliberately so.

Because that's what Froggit at the top of the page was alluding to ? Is not exactly good for the union is it ? No Clapton. I can't ever imagine a Scottish Government viewing any of it's MSP's, or part of it's electorate as Froggit does above.

Amen to that. Patience is wearing very thin on both sides, and we're probably entering the end-game over the next few years. The political union has split already. Just all the money/debt to be divided and divvyed up before the final goodbye...:p

What I asked is for specific examples where people with an opposite view to the SNP have prevailed.

How is the governance of Scotland any different to other democracies where the majority vote in the parliament carries the day?

How many cabinet ministers in Holyrood aren't SNP members?

How are you taking the view of the Scottish Tories into account?
How are you dealing with people who think endless borrowing is a bad thing?
What consultations are taking place with them?


Patience isn't the issue: the separatists have a unique opportunity.
Separatists are on a roll and I'm urging you to seize the moment.
Start talking about the next referendum ; start to talk about what happens to the money system and explaining how good the Euro will be for Scotland : what about all shops in Scotland start accepting the Euro equal to the pound: Scottish government employees to be paid in Euros.


Start thinking outside the box: I'm really trying to help here.

kabayiri

Shakethedisease wrote: »

...

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Slightly OT...but...where can I get myself one of those super-sized Wee Eck Pounds?

I think it's fab.

Thrugelmir

Shakethedisease wrote: »

The SNP being ignored while the Tory party ( which most of Scotland didn't vote for ) start swingeing cuts and instituting further unpopular polices, such as the scrapping of the HRA, and Trident renewal... will bolster support for independence, most especially if Labour go down a further 'Tory lite' path. There's no getting away from it.

That's where Milliband lost the plot. All rhetoric and no substance. Negative campaigning switches people off. As suggests that the speaker actually has nothing constructive to offer.

.string.

I see that Salmond will share a platform with Osborne for the EU Referendum. Salmond, who describes himself as "one of the more popular politicians in the country" suggested that Osborne not campaign in Scotland because that would not help a Yes Vote.

Diplomatic as ever one notes.

Salmond (was) accused of hypocrisy over pledge to campaign with Tories on EU

Well while Salmond tried to make Scotland a no go zone for Tory Politicians, he will no doubt use his vast popularity south of the border for a little but of posing at Westminster. He's the one on the middle, centre of his own attention

kabayiri

.string. wrote: »

I see that Salmond will share a platform with Osborne for the EU Referendum. Salmond, who describes himself as "one of the more popular politicians in the country" suggested that Osborne not campaign in Scotland because that would not help a Yes Vote.

Diplomatic as ever one notes.

Salmond (was) accused of hypocrisy over pledge to campaign with Tories on EU

Well while Salmond tried to make Scotland a no go zone for Tory Politicians, he will no doubt use his vast popularity south of the border for a little but of posing at Westminster. He's the one on the middle, centre of his own attention

They all go native eventually. Look at Gerry Adams meeting Prince Charles!

Salmond will enjoy feeding from the Westminster top table. Ne might even invite Nicola to hop on the National Express overnighter and come join him for a spot of brekkie.

Shakethedisease

kabayiri wrote: »

Slightly OT...but...where can I get myself one of those super-sized Wee Eck Pounds?

I think it's fab.

So did we. It was difficult to see the 'keep the UK, keep the pound' thing on the little pound shaped leaflets. So it looked like Labour were going round the doors popping Yes ads through letterboxes, complete with Alex prominently displayed on every one of them.

Support for Yes jumped up markedly immediately afterwards, which am sure is just a coincidence..

Shakethedisease

.string. wrote: »

I see that Salmond will share a platform with Osborne for the EU Referendum. Salmond, who describes himself as "one of the more popular politicians in the country" suggested that Osborne not campaign in Scotland because that would not help a Yes Vote.

Diplomatic as ever one notes.

Salmond (was) accused of hypocrisy over pledge to campaign with Tories on EU

Well while Salmond tried to make Scotland a no go zone for Tory Politicians, he will no doubt use his vast popularity south of the border for a little but of posing at Westminster. He's the one on the middle, centre of his own attention

So a quote from Jackie Ballie, Labour MSP makes headlines in the Scotsman. How predictable. She's not the biggest Salmond fan...

I wouldn't worry about Alex Salmond too much. We know what he's all about up here. And he is quite popular... polarising yes, but still very popular. Nicola seems to have gotten the balance a bit better though in terms of love/hate as a politician.

He was very wise to resign so soon after the referendum, and associate the defeat with himself. Giving Nicola and the SNP a clean, fresh run up to the election. Am sure he knows fine well not to be standing 'shoulder to shoulder' with Osborne on any platform. But that doesn't mean he has to oppose an IN vote for the EU ref in order to avoid doing so.

Looking likely that the SNP will chair 2 select committee's which is good news..

SNP (2)
Energy and Climate Change
Scotland