Salmond and Sturgeon Want the English Fish for More Fat Subsidies

Generali

LOL. Your Black story reminds me of the threat to prosecute Jewish fans of still a largely Jewish club from calling themselves the Y I d Army!!!

Shakethedisease

kabayiri wrote: »

We elected them to make the cuts. This is obviously what they will do.

How this impacts the Scottish independence; well, that's secondary frankly. The fiscal health of the entire nation comes first in my book.

Full independence will only benefit the rest of us by removing a major cost factor, so give us a shout if you need any help in "driving that support"

I won't need to give you a shout. If/When there's a next time I have no doubt that Scotland will be positively encouraged on her way. And there will be no more 'vows' or 'love bombing' coming Scotland's way either. Businesses and bank's 'threatening to leave' will be run on the mill yawn inducing headlines that we've all heard before, because the EU referendum coming up will make absolutely sure of that. Scotland 'out of the EU' will be something to be laughed at after that too.

Tories in power always drives independence support in Scotland up. And the cuts coming our way are going to bolster that support much further. You elected them to make the cuts. Most of Scotland didn't.

Am looking forward to Osborne coming through on his promises for more billions towards the NHS, right to buy on housing association houses and an iron clad law barring him from tax rises etc over the next few years. I think the Tories made a lot of promises over the election campaign that they didn't intend to keep on on the basis that they thought they'd be watered down via a coalition/minority govt. But he certainly wasn't promising it would be all cuts was he ?

Froggitt

Enterprise_1701C wrote: »

I am getting rather tired of the idea that Scotland are so desperate to be the tail that wags the dog.

Would have been so in a minority Miliband government. Theyre more like a flea on the dogs back right now.......bit of an annoyance every now and again, but no real trouble or influence.

Shakethedisease

Generali wrote: »

So you don't want independence or FFA any more.

FFA is something that has to be offered by Westminster. The Scottish Govt can't just 'take it'. I do want independence. FFA for me, and a lot of others would be a step in the right direction towards independence. Most further powers, whether bit by bit, or a lot at once.. are simply a means to an end.

Should the Scottish Government use its tax raising powers or should Scotland get an ever increasing share of Britain's tax revenues?

I wish you'd make up your mind.

No idea what you're on about. What's the point of using tax raising powers if ( up until now ) they cost more to admin, than any benefits brought. Or are a poisoned chalice on the basis that ALL the govt can ever do is raise taxes, but do nothing else financially ? There has to be a full range of powers in order for that to work.

Imagine that the Tories were in power and they are hamstrung by only ever being able to raise taxes, and even if they could vary them, they still could do nothing much with the revenues raised ? I doubt they'd last long.

And why would Scotland be getting an 'ever increasing share' of UK tax revenues ?

Shakethedisease

Froggitt wrote: »

Would have been so in a minority Miliband government. Theyre more like a flea on the dogs back right now.......bit of an annoyance every now and again, but no real trouble or influence.

Which makes the SNP's point about Scotland, it's MP's and it's electorate having very little influence or say at Westminster rather well don't you think ?

CLAPTON

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Which makes the SNP's point about Scotland, it's MP's and it's electorate having very little influence or say at Westminster rather well don't you think ?

Scotland's MPs have the same influence as any other MP at Westminister.
The SNP MPs have the same influence that any opposition MP has.

In Scotland the opposition MPs in Holyrood have no influence : how is that fair? How is the Scotland planning to change that?

Your point is the same as in very democracy in the world.

Only in Scotland, with its victim, chip on the shoulder culture, is it an excuse to hate the English.

Pathetic.

Generali

CLAPTON wrote: »

Scotland's MPs have the same influence as any other MP at Westminister.
The SNP MPs have the same influence that any opposition MP has.

In Scotland the opposition MPs in Holyrood have no influence : how is that fair? How is the Scotland planning to change that?

Your point is the same as in very democracy in the world.

Only in Scotland, with its victim, chip on the shoulder culture, is it an excuse to hate the English.

Pathetic.

I think you're confusing the Scots with the SNP. They are completely different things. Little more than a third of the Scots electorate voted for them and fractionally over half who voted, voted SNP.

That's a big number but a very, very long way from all Scots.

Shakethedisease

Generali wrote: »

I think you're confusing the Scots with the SNP. They are completely different things. Little more than a third of the Scots electorate voted for them and fractionally over half who voted, voted SNP.

That's a big number but a very, very long way from all Scots.

But an even further very, very long way from the Tory vote share covering the entire UK.

Faisal IslamVerified account ‏@faisalislam "Government elected in May 2015 holds lowest share of vote in both Wales (27.2%) and Scotland (14.9%) since 1945"

You seem very keen to play down what does and doesn't represent 'all Scots' ...but strangely reluctant to view the Tory government we now have as in no way representative of the entirety of the UK. You cannot have it both ways ( although you do make a spirited stab at it ). The Tories having received only about 37% of the vote.

So if the SNP on half the vote share of Scotland ( in the only seats they stand candidates ), isn't representative, then obviously that makes the Tories, on 37% across the UK even less so.

I think you're confusing UK citizens with the Tories. They are completely different things. Little more than 66% of the UK electorate voted and out of those only 37% of those who voted, voted Conservative.

That's a big number but a very, very long way from all UK residents.

Shakethedisease

CLAPTON wrote: »

Scotland's MPs have the same influence as any other MP at Westminister.
The SNP MPs have the same influence that any opposition MP has.

In Scotland the opposition MPs in Holyrood have no influence : how is that fair? How is the Scotland planning to change that?

Your point is the same as in very democracy in the world.

Only in Scotland, with its victim, chip on the shoulder culture, is it an excuse to hate the English.

Pathetic.

But perception is all in politics. The SNP being ignored while the Tory party ( which most of Scotland didn't vote for ) start swingeing cuts and instituting further unpopular polices, such as the scrapping of the HRA, and Trident renewal... will bolster support for independence, most especially if Labour go down a further 'Tory lite' path. There's no getting away from it.

Holyrood MSP's are elected on a PR basis, so are far more representative and opposition MP's do have influence in shaping policy. For example the Scottish budget has to be submitted months in advance for all parties to look at and propose ammendments. It all works a bit differently so you can't really compare.

Once again, Scots are governed from London by a party for which they did not vote and whose policies most find repugnant. Fostered by Conservative tactlessness and a new strain of anti-Scottish bias in the London-based media, the argument that real self-government may not, after all, be compatible with belonging to the United Kingdom grows only stronger.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/22/opinion/scotlands-high-road-to-home-rule.html

CLAPTON

Shakethedisease wrote: »

But perception is all in politics. The SNP being ignored while the Tory party ( which most of Scotland didn't vote for ) start swingeing cuts and instituting further unpopular polices, such as the scrapping of the HRA, and Trident renewal... will bolster support for independence, most especially if Labour go down a further 'Tory lite' path. There's no getting away from it.

Holyrood MSP's are elected on a PR basis, so are far more representative and opposition MP's do have influence in shaping policy. For example the Scottish budget has to be submitted months in advance for all parties to look at and propose ammendments. It all works a bit differently so you can't really compare.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/22/opinion/scotlands-high-road-to-home-rule.html

perception is all................. so facts don't matter to you at all?


when budget is voted on in Holyrood, is it one MP one vote : just like Westminster or not?

In Westminster there is a committee system where detail can be considered.

How many Holyrood cabinet ministers are from parties other than SNP?


Give us some examples where non SNP concerned are considered in Holyrood; how are people who think endless borrowing is a bad thing 'included' in the Holyrood system? Or are they 'ignored'?


Yes I know you want to borrow, borrow, borrow and never ever have to repay the debt: only Scotland has made it into a racist issues rather than a different view of economics.

That is not really a Scottish versa English matter is it? I'm sure there are some people in Scotland that doubt the merits of borrowing more and more.

In every democracy in the world the 'majority' get to have their way : exactly as happens in Scotland.
No different at all.

However there is light at the end of the tunnel : after SNP victory next year : demand for new referendum : refused : SNP run their own Scottish referendum
who knows the result but let us join together and hope it is a YES and leads to a real one and separation asap.