Salmond and Sturgeon Want the English Fish for More Fat Subsidies

IveSeenTheLight

elantan wrote: »

it didnt need to be massive though and remember contrary to popular belief there are a lot of people that wanted devo max that are now not getting it, not everyone that voted yes wanted independence, my son for example wants devo max not independence, he voted yes though ... so there are many unknowns as well as many knowns

Indeed, a 5% swing is not massive and I would agree, full devo max would probably quell many pro-independence voters

IveSeenTheLight

Generali wrote: »

Please don't twist my words.

What words did I twist.
I made a simple statement

Generali wrote: »

The leadership are clearly adopting a divide and rule mindset. You just need to look at what a lot of putative SNP MPs have written in the recent past to see that.

What divide and rule mindset are you referring to?

Certainly the party policy is to offer hands of friendship and work alongside a minority UK government.

Indeed nicola Sturgeon has promised to: -

Nicola Sturgeon vowed that her party would act “responsibly and constructively” if it agreed to prop up a minority centre-left Labour government led by Ed Miliband.

Is it because she has negated working with the Conservatives?
How is that so wrong when we see how well the Lib-Dems have done in the coalition.

It would be political suicide to align with the Conservatives as a Scottish Party.

Incidentally Plaid Cymru have also said similarly.

It's clear that you are a Conservative voter and I wonder if the rise in electorate vote for SNP is a clear strike against working with the Conservatives for the upcoming government, meaning there is a greater potential that the Conservatives would fail in the next parliament

Generali wrote: »

The SNP plan to render the UK nonviable and quit a sinking ship they've put a hole in.

The SNP have clearly said they would work with the government.
they will not want to make sure the next government fails as a result of them.

Indeed, the Conservatives are doing more for rising Nationilism in Scotland than what the SNP are doing.

Generali wrote: »

Unfortunately voters in Scotland, and I suspect in England too, are starting to fall for it.

I've said before, the electorate are no longer falling for the two party system at Westminster and are calling for a change in politics.

Time to stop the spin and become transparently honest in how they are planning to bring the whole of the UK foward

kabayiri

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

...
Certainly the party policy is to offer hands of friendship and work alongside a minority UK government.

Indeed nicola Sturgeon has promised to: -


Is it because she has negated working with the Conservatives?
How is that so wrong when we see how well the Lib-Dems have done in the coalition.
...

A politicians promise....just words I am afraid.

She has said that if there were a budget related vote on something like an increase in NHS spending in England, and if the SNP felt that would potentially detract from spending in Scotland, then they would vote against this.

If we accept this is valid, then we should support English MP's right to vote to defend English spend, or question the preferential financial support Scotland gets compared to an equivalent region like Yorkshire.

A Yorkshire voter is just as important as a Scottish voter.

IveSeenTheLight

kabayiri wrote: »

A politicians promise....just words I am afraid.

I presume you take all politicians statements in the same regard.

kabayiri wrote: »

She has said that if there were a budget related vote on something like an increase in NHS spending in England, and if the SNP felt that would potentially detract from spending in Scotland, then they would vote against this.

She has said that any votes which impact on Scotland they should be allowed to vote on.

If there is no impact to Scotland, then they would abstain and effectively give the Rest of UK the English Vote for English Laws they are campaigning for

kabayiri wrote: »

If we accept this is valid, then we should support English MP's right to vote to defend English spend, or question the preferential financial support Scotland gets compared to an equivalent region like Yorkshire.

A Yorkshire voter is just as important as a Scottish voter.

Yes a Yorkshire Voter is just as important as a Scottish voter.

Couple of things on this however.

The FPTP system does not mean even weighting of voters, and your vote could effectively mean NOTHING in the election.

Your reference to the Barnett Formula was derived to ensure that the remotest parts of the UK gets support and infrastructure regardless of ruralness or location.

Just because you reside closer to London should not make your value more.

Many seem to forget that Scotland have provided more per head than the ROUK for each of the last 34 years (more than Yorkshire electorate as many seem to campaign for that region)

kabayiri

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

...
Your reference to the Barnett Formula was derived to ensure that the remotest parts of the UK gets support and infrastructure regardless of ruralness or location.
....

I accept this principle, but it's too course. Edinburgh and Glasgow are just as densely populated as many of the English cities.

Technology has moved on. People can now work remotely.

We should continually challenge the basis for any subsidy. We aren't exactly flush with cash as a nation, far from it. We need to save money.

Tromking

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

Many seem to forget that Scotland have provided more per head than the ROUK for each of the last 34 years (more than Yorkshire electorate as many seem to campaign for that region)

People don`t merely forget that particular stat, they ignore it because it`s absolute bunkum.
I`m embarrassed for you that you still use it.

IveSeenTheLight

Tromking wrote: »

People don`t merely forget that particular stat, they ignore it because it`s absolute bunkum.
I`m embarrassed for you that you still use it.

Its not bunkum, it's fact, you just don't like it

Incidentally, I recall much discussion about the deficit and the debt



Looks like Scotland deficit has overall been smaller as a percentage than the UK's.

Who's been building up the debt?

Tromking

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

Its not bunkum, it's fact, you just don't like it

Incidentally, I recall much discussion about the deficit and the debt

Looks like Scotland deficit has overall been smaller as a percentage than the UK's.

Who's been building up the debt?

So when you said "Scotland provided more per head than the ROUK"
What did you mean?

IveSeenTheLight

Tromking wrote: »

So when you said "Scotland provided more per head than the ROUK"
What did you mean?

Sorry, should have been clearer, that was tax revenues per head

CLAPTON

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

I presume you take all politicians statements in the same regard.



She has said that any votes which impact on Scotland they should be allowed to vote on.

If there is no impact to Scotland, then they would abstain and effectively give the Rest of UK the English Vote for English Laws they are campaigning for




Yes a Yorkshire Voter is just as important as a Scottish voter.

Couple of things on this however.

The FPTP system does not mean even weighting of voters, and your vote could effectively mean NOTHING in the election.

Your reference to the Barnett Formula was derived to ensure that the remotest parts of the UK gets support and infrastructure regardless of ruralness or location.

Just because you reside closer to London should not make your value more.

Many seem to forget that Scotland have provided more per head than the ROUK for each of the last 34 years (more than Yorkshire electorate as many seem to campaign for that region)

Let's just for the moment assume that truly Scotland is the richest part of the UK and produces the most revenue per capita.

The SNP principles of fairness and reducing inequality, mean that the richest parts of the country should get greater state funds than the poorer (per head of population of course)

So these SNP principles would mean that e.g. London, Edinburgh, Cambridge, Aberdeen should receive more for their schools, hospitals, social services than poorer areas like Yorkshire, Highland and Isles etc. (per head of course).

Even the most right wing Tory would be shocked as such greed and unfairness.