Salmond and Sturgeon Want the English Fish for More Fat Subsidies

elantan

I think those numbers are dwindling daily

Generali

BobQ wrote: »

The polls point to a potential wipe out for Labour in Scotland. The Tory policy of promoting fear in English electors over the influence of the SNP, while stoking anti-Scottish thinking may well work in terms of making them the largest UK party. But at what price? The break up of the UK.

If the policy works they might just scrape a minority Tory Government or even a continuing ConDem coalition (with both having lost support). More likely they will lead to a minority administration bolstered by the SNP and others. Both solutions will we weak and by-elections could result in it getting weaker through the Parliament.

But at what price? The break up of the UK, something that less than a year ago he was desperate to salvage, an argument he will never be able to advance again with any credibility.

Whatever the short term benefits for the Tories of this strategy, Cameron is destroying the Union. I just hope that Scottish people who believe in the Union, have the sense to see how they are being manipulated by Tory desperation.

No, the SNP with their hate fuelled, divisive policies are destroying the UK.

Shakethedisease

Better_Days wrote: »

Shakethedisease, thanks for your detailed response to my post and for explaining about Section 30 of the Edinburgh agreement (something that had entirely passed me by )

But if Milliband had said we'll work with the SNP if that is how the cards fall, surely that too would have been just as beneficial for the SNP? From an English perspective SNP 'bullishness' about their likely gain of seats, and their resultant influence in Westminster, will play well in Scotland, but here I think it has rankled rather. This maybe part of the reason for the 'ruling out' of coalition with the SNP, ie political expediency of how it will play out in England rather than genuine concern about legitimacy. And of course the right wing press has had a field day with it all which has whipped up all the unpleasantness against the SNP to a higher level.

Miliband has been put in an impossible position. In the early days of the campaign trying to save his Scottish seats and give the Labour party it's usual 'Scottish cohort' of guaranteed MP's in order to secure a big advantage.. while having to woo marginals in England. This I'm afraid is Labour's current problem in a nutshell. The voters in each are looking for completely different things from Labour.

He's now given up on his Scottish seats, hanging Jim Murphy very publically out to dry in the process. But that's why it took him so long to rule out a coalition.. he was scared of alienating Scottish voters. Not so now. He knows that the votes he needs are in the marginals which aren't so sympathetic to the SNP anywhere near power. So he's ruling out deals.

As for the SNP being 'bullish'.. I don't know. What you probably haven't factored in is the fact that in ALL previous elections the SNP barely got a mention UK wise. No leaders debates or news coverage. In 2010 I voted Lib Dem.. it's only now with hindsight I can see how much I was influenced by all the newspapers, media and leaders debates making it very much a three way race. I never thought about voting SNP .never crossed my mind, because I never heard very much about them in the context of a UK general election.

They've had a lot of media coverage this time, due to the referendum, the fall out and then the leaders debates. I think they've been very wise to use it to the absolute max. They're newsworthy. It's not a chance they ever get in a general election. They've also been very astute in ignoring Jim Murphy in his early honeymoon days ( he was out with a policy every day ).. pitching Nicola Sturgeon onto a UK stage directly against Miliband/Cameron, and Salmond keeping a low profile.

Nicola has seized her chance the way Salmond never had the opportunity to do in a general election. It's paying off rather well.

Shakethedisease

Generali wrote: »

No, the SNP with their hate fuelled, divisive policies are destroying the UK.

It's in the Times today that Lib Dem grassroots are planning a revolt if Clegg wants another coalition deal with the Tories. Interesting times...

Generali

Shakethedisease wrote: »

It's in the Times today that Lib Dem grassroots are planning a revolt if Clegg wants another coalition deal with the Tories. Interesting times...

Maybe the Lib Dems and the SNP could form a Government.

All this whinging about parties 'not wanting to work' with the SNP is ludicrous. The Unionist parties don't want to form any form of coalition (or confidence and supply deal which will end up as the same thing but without the Cabinet positions) with the SNP as they are opposed to the fundamental premise of the SNP: the destruction of the UK.

As things stand, the major parties will be forced to work with the SNP as the SNP, assuming they get the third largest number of seats, will have a place on every Parliamentary Committee. That'll be interesting given the complete lack of experience of the vast majority of SNP candidates. I wonder how the 20 y/o will fare.

skintmacflint

Generali wrote: »

. I wonder how the 20 y/o will fare.

Not very well if her interviews are anything to go by.

But at the moment it seems SNP could put up a giraffe as a candidate and SNP supporters would vote for them. Despite all the talk of this new politically enlightened, questioning Scotland, nothing has changed. Still got blind followers, except instead of Labour it's SNP. Reminds me of an Ealing comedy.

skintmacflint

BobQ wrote: »

I just hope that Scottish people who believe in the Union, have the sense to see how they are being manipulated by Tory desperation.

Can assure you thousands of Scottish people who believe in the Union hope people over the border don't think all of Scotland agree with SNP rhetoric. And have the sense not to be taken in by SNPs hand of friendship, nor their recently invented anti austerity policies.

Because if you do then you are being manipulated.

Generali

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Lack of democratic Scottish representation at Westminster, instituted solely in order to stop democratic Scottish representation at Westminster. Union over.

Logically, how can you have a group leading any organisation whose primary aim is to destroy that organisation?

kabayiri

Generali wrote: »

Logically, how can you have a group leading any organisation whose primary aim is to destroy that organisation?

The magic word apparently is "democracy".

That's the only thing you need to say to rectify any conflicting arrangement.

Of course it has one simple flaw. It's rubbish.

kabayiri

Shakethedisease wrote: »

It's simple democracy. A Grand Coalition at the present time, the way the votes look like going... would plainly only be happening to deny Scottish MP's influence in Westminster matters. Nothing else. It looks petulant, spiteful, desperate and petty.

It would also remove any effective opposition ( there would be an SNP MP doing PMQ's for the the opposition ! ). And by far and away the most important consideration.. all those millions of voters who had 'voted Labour to keep the Tories out'.. or vice versa. Are not exactly going to be thrilled are they ?
...

This talk of petulance, petty. It's just rubbish.

The needs of the UK come first, not 8.5% of the electorate. That's the primary concern. The needs of the UK. You are the one looking desperate here I'm afraid. You need to see the wider picture. The Scottish independence agenda has blinkered your view.

You talk about the loss of effective opposition as a primary concern, yet you rejoice in other posts about the fact that the SNP will be by far and away the dominant presence from Scotland. Where is the effective opposition there?