Salmond and Sturgeon Want the English Fish for More Fat Subsidies

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Together these companies make sales in Scotland worth billions of pounds annually, and the billions they generate for the UK Treasury are filed in tax returns from their head offices, which are usually in London..

Generali wrote: »

On the other side to Tesco of course there are many companies based in Edinburgh such as HBOS, RBS, Scottish Life, SSE which will have tax revenues counted as Scottish despite gaining revenues and having employees all over the UK.

Actually both these premises are false.

As is explained here.....

"A common complaint raised when discussing GERS figure comes from those who followed some of the less reliable commentators during the referendum debate. These commentators sowed doubt and confusion by failing to understand how the GERS figures are compiled."

"If they bothered to read the GERS Method Statement they would know that VAT and Duty are (correctly) estimated based on consumption and that corporation tax is estimated based on location of economic activity (not head office)"




So Shakey's/Wings assertion that VAT revenue for supermarket sales in Scotland is actually allocated to the head office location of the supermarket is completely false.

The Scottish government already includes that in the GERS figures.

The same thing applies to all the other spurious claims around misallocation of revenue, like whisky or other exports being booked in England as they transit through an English port, etc.

The Scottish Government have been SNP controlled for years and knew the indy ref was coming through at least two sets of GERS figures, there is absolutely no chance they allowed such obvious mistakes to underplay the chances of Scotland's economics stacking up.

If they had then they are even more incompetent than they look, but the reality is, the GERS method statement specifically addresses this and they didn't...

Generali

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Actually both these premises are false.

As is explained here.....

"A common complaint raised when discussing GERS figure comes from those who followed some of the less reliable commentators during the referendum debate. These commentators sowed doubt and confusion by failing to understand how the GERS figures are compiled."

"If they bothered to read the GERS Method Statement they would know that VAT and Duty are (correctly) estimated based on consumption and that corporation tax is estimated based on location of economic activity (not head office)"




So Shakey's/Wings assertion that VAT revenue for supermarket sales in Scotland is actually allocated to the head office location of the supermarket is completely false.

The Scottish government already includes that in the GERS figures.

The same thing applies to all the other spurious claims around misallocation of revenue, like whisky or other exports being booked in England as they transit through an English port, etc.

The Scottish Government have been SNP controlled for years and knew the indy ref was coming through at least two sets of GERS figures, there is absolutely no chance they allowed such obvious mistakes to underplay the chances of Scotland's economics stacking up.

If they had then they are even more incompetent than they look, but the reality is, the GERS method statement specifically addresses this and they didn't...

I did find it interesting that STD's mate who forensically and rather sarcastically went through the GERS data found a net difference of one decimal place, a rounding difference. I wonder why so many SNP people use this erroneous 'fact' as if it were true rather than simply look at the source? Malice or ignorance I wonder?

If the GERS figures are so bad I'd expect that her mate with the chip on his shoulder would have found it.

vivatifosi

All over the news thus morning is the manifesto pledge of SNP to vote on English issues such as the NHS and tuition fees, when it really is none of their business.

If Scotland wants independence so much, then meddling in English votes really should be none of their business.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

vivatifosi wrote: »

If Scotland wants independence so much, then meddling in English votes really should be none of their business.

Viva, Scotland doesn't want independence, the SNP want to make such a nuisance of themselves that public opinion in favour of the Union changes and the UK becomes ungovernable with us in it.

On behalf of the 50%+ of Scotland that don't support the SNP, I'd like to apologise for their antics now, as it's likely going to get worse before it gets better.

Moby

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Hamish posted it earlier in the thread. Is all over Twitter. I guess if Hamish can post from blogs like that..Well then here's some more 'bias' for you. Now, I hope you won't just dismiss it as 'bias' and think long and hard over the implications.;)

http://wingsoverscotland.com/the-great-gingerbread-robbery/

A Scottish Treasury for some of that lot might be good for a start ? Every little helps. There's lots things like that would be done differently under ( the non-happening ) FFA. But is all moot. It is honestly.. give up with the instant FFA tomorrow black hole.

Looks like the SNP will tomorrow be attempting to garner further support in the North of England. Even if they can't vote for them. Labour voters there might be sympathetic to SNP policies, surely more sympathetic to that than a Tory/UKIP deal anyway.
http://news.sky.com/story/1467977/sturgeon-to-make-manifesto-offer-to-the-north

David Cameron apparently refused to sit next to Nicola Sturgeon on Andrew Marr's sofa today because he didn't want to be photographed with her. And tomorrow the Scottish Daily Mail will feature a double page spread of how to 'tactical vote' against the SNP.

Democracy and mature politics in action eh. Getting all very nasty again as Labour try and hold off a wipeout. And the Tories ramp up the anti-SNP rhetoric in the hope of completely de-legitamising any Labour arrangement's right form government. Is all actually starting to feel a bit sinister. I don't know if others are feeling the same (those on this thread ? ).. Cameron actually had to be reminded today by Marr that SNP MP's are democratically elected like everyone else... so he changed the subject.

Cameron has been an absolutely awful PM. On the Marr show yesterday he was angry and bitter. He spent the whole time talking up the threat from the SNP. Is that statesmanlike behaviour? Is that the limits of his 'UK' leadership? He has nothing to offer except partisan bigotry. He has no sense of history.....saying that 'this is the first time British people have been held to ransom by nationalists'. He has never heard of Irish Nationalism and the part they played at the start 20th C.

Sturgeon is a breath of fresh air and an SNP cohort at Westminster putting backbone into a Labour govmt is infinitely preferable than the shambles we have had for the last five years. The Tories lack legitimacy because their writ does not run in large parts of this country. They represent the interests of their paymasters and think the rest of us proles can be bought off by Lloyds bank shares. They see everything through money and believe in very little. Just imagine if they won what would happen over the next two years in relation to an EU referendum. It would cause chaos. Cameron who doesn't want to leave will simply lie about what concessions he has 'won' . He has no support in Europe. Merkel and Hollande are pulling the strings and doing the negotiating with Putin etc .

If the referendum resulted in our exit what would this mean in Scotland and Wales. There is no desire to leave the EU there. Should they be forced to due to little Englander UKIP types that Cameron can't control?. I can guarantee such an outcome would result in another referendum and this time the result would be very different!

CLAPTON

Moby wrote: »

Cameron has been an absolutely awful PM. On the Marr show yesterday he was angry and bitter. He spent the whole time talking up the threat from the SNP. Is that statesmanlike behaviour? Is that the limits of his 'UK' leadership? He has nothing to offer except partisan bigotry. He has no sense of history.....saying that 'this is the first time British people have been held to ransom by nationalists'. He has never heard of Irish Nationalism and the part they played at the start 20th C.

Sturgeon is a breath of fresh air and an SNP cohort at Westminster putting backbone into a Labour govmt is infinitely preferable than the shambles we have had for the last five years. The Tories lack legitimacy because their writ does not run in large parts of this country. They represent the interests of their paymasters and think the rest of us proles can be bought off by Lloyds bank shares. They see everything through money and believe in very little. Just imagine if they won what would happen over the next two years in relation to an EU referendum. It would cause chaos. Cameron who doesn't want to leave will simply lie about what concessions he has 'won' . He has no support in Europe. Merkel and Hollande are pulling the strings and doing the negotiating with Putin etc .

If the referendum resulted in our exit what would this mean in Scotland and Wales. There is no desire to leave the EU there. Should they be forced to due to little Englander UKIP types that Cameron can't control?. I can guarantee such an outcome would result in another referendum and this time the result would be very different!

yes there will be other referendum

and hopefully the result will be a yes as apparently turkeys do vote for christmas sometimes

kabayiri

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

...
The Scottish government already includes that in the GERS figures.

The same thing applies to all the other spurious claims around misallocation of revenue, like whisky or other exports being booked in England as they transit through an English port, etc.

The Scottish Government have been SNP controlled for years and knew the indy ref was coming through at least two sets of GERS figures, there is absolutely no chance they allowed such obvious mistakes to underplay the chances of Scotland's economics stacking up.

If they had then they are even more incompetent than they look, but the reality is, the GERS method statement specifically addresses this and they didn't...

I've said before I still feel fairly neutral on Scottish independence. It really is for the Scots to decide.

I am however highly dubious on the political types using tricks to mask core true figures. Shakey's post uses a hint that additional revenue from the likes of our biggest grocer of a couple of hundred million tops can somehow close the spending gap *which* has to be addressed at some point (let's forget this overnight bickering).

The process of determining the true figures is being subverted. How can the poor voter work out the reality?

I don't want this kind of 'new age / engaged' politics coming down here thanks. If we are to have another coallition form the next government we need them to at least all pull in the same direction.

kabayiri

vivatifosi wrote: »

All over the news thus morning is the manifesto pledge of SNP to vote on English issues such as the NHS and tuition fees, when it really is none of their business.

If Scotland wants independence so much, then meddling in English votes really should be none of their business.

I'm perfectly happy with bipartisan arrangements when it comes to votes on big ticket items like this.

If Scottish MPs can vote on our tuition fees, then rUK MPs should be able to vote on the introduction of tuition fees in Scotland.

This would actually help them start to close that £8bn gap.

catshark88

Just chatting to friends down here in the south of England, people don't seem to be separating the SNP from the Scottish people. It's all "if they hate us so much, let them go", or more positively, "if the Scots want independence, let them have it".

I don't think I agree with the SNP on anything, but they have done a wonderful job making people forget that 55% rejected independence.

kabayiri

Moby wrote: »

...
If the referendum resulted in our exit what would this mean in Scotland and Wales. There is no desire to leave the EU there. Should they be forced to due to little Englander UKIP types that Cameron can't control?. I can guarantee such an outcome would result in another referendum and this time the result would be very different!

Yeah, it's not nice when a minority group try to foist their preferences on the majority, thinking they know better than us.

Oh...wait....that sounds a bit like what the SNP are trying to do in this GE!

Those pesky SNPee'ers :rotfl: