Salmond and Sturgeon Want the English Fish for More Fat Subsidies

skintmacflint

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Well Sturgeon got another kicking.

Seems neither the audience nor the other politicians felt like being fooled by her lies and obfuscations tonight.

Yes another rabble and Sturgeon again feels the disdain of the No voters. She looked thoughtful. Again she wasn't able to steer things her way, at parts it sounded like a rerun of the Indy Ref.

Jim Murphy again coming across as very confident. His comment that Sturgeon has ' 'gone from the great proud leader of the Yes campaign to the being the head of the Maybes Aye , Maybes Naw campaign. I look forward to seeing that badge' was an absolute belter.

Sturgeon can't be happy with how these debates have gone, no matter what the political correspondents write. She can see with her own eyes Scotland as a whole isn't on side.

Leanne1812

skintmacflint wrote: »

Yes another rabble and Sturgeon again feels the disdain of the No voters. She looked thoughtful. Again she wasn't able to steer things her way, at parts it sounded like a rerun of the Indy Ref.

Jim Murphy again coming across as very confident. His comment that Sturgeon has ' 'gone from the great proud leader of the Yes campaign to the being the head of the Maybes Aye , Maybes Naw campaign. I look forward to seeing that badge' was an absolute belter.

Sturgeon can't be happy with how these debates have gone, no matter what the political correspondents write. She can see with her own eyes Scotland as a whole isn't on side.

It's quite amazing how differently we see people. I saw Jim as insincere & so shouty, not just over Nicola, everyone who tried to get their points across was interrupted by his constant shouting. I agree, it was a rabble. I like James Cook but he was a poor chair tonight.

Of course Scotland as a whole isn't on side. Staunch no voters/unionists will never be on board with the SNP. Statistics apparently show not many are swayed by tv debates.

elantan

I found the fact they couldnt seem to get passed the referendum was so bloody annoying, I was shouting its GE15 people not indy ref 2 !!!!!!

skintmacflint

elantan wrote: »

I wouldnt say she got a kicking tbh ... but what i do believe is that people will be watching that and noticing two nights in a row she was effectively bullied.

One thing I know about the Scot's is ... They hate bullies , so she may have in fact done better than first thought.

I think she may be battered bleeding and bruised but at the end of the two fights she is still standing and that is the sign of a leader ... kinda glad now it was two nights in a row ... I wasnt earlier on tbh

I'd agree that last night she was bullied and more last night. At one point last night, I nearly felt sorry for her, but not so much tonight. She is a bully herself , and doesn't have the reputation of Nippy Nic which she doesn't mind at HR for no reason. If SNP have to rely or hope for Scotland not liking bullies to recover from this , then they have a huge problem. She could have totally turned this round, but didn't. Too used to working in Holyrood.

Sturgeon was at a disadvantage as she had much more to lose during the debates. As is always the case for anyone debating whose party is in government . She also had her newly established national reputation to defend.

Her strategists advised her badly in how she should have approached these debates. Her performance just confirmed my belief that neither she nor Salmond are suitably qualified to be in control of anything more than their existing devolved powers.

elantan

It was like a BT love in ... yes she was bullied ... totally she was bullied, but she is still standing after it so well done to her, however, I would agree her arguments were not great and she has ground to make up most deff, she did much better in the national debate, to me this means that next year she is going to have to up her game big time, I think most of the problems with last nights and tonights debate can be put down to devolved v's reserved powers I was astounded that the public couldnt understand this, was really dissapointed with them tbh ... next year i think will be more interesting... I do still believe that Scotland should be independent though and we are more than capable of governing ourselves ... put it this way we cant do a worse job than either Blair or Cameron

Shakethedisease

I got really bored, then switched off when it started getting all shouty and looking like a re-run of the independence debates. Followed the rest periodically on Twitter. Seems like it remained more or less a re-run of the independence debates only to be ended by Jim Murphy getting a bit more shouty for the last 10 minutes.

I can only echo Wee Ginger Dug when he say's 'thank god it's over'. Is there really still one to go ? I doubt any minds will have been swayed with a rammy like that tonight.

I wouldn't worry much about next year's debates just yet elantan.. Imo Nicola's been putting most efforts into a UK wide context this time round ( well it is a UK election after all ). Making Murphy seem almost irrelevant for the last week or so of the run up to this election. The last two nights have been his big and only chances to shine. I don't think he's quite pulled it off as hoped. And let's face it, it was Murphy v's Sturgeon that mattered tonight and last night in terms of winning over voters. Or in Murphy's case, winning them back. Time will tell of course, and I could be wrong, but I don't think he managed any game changer.

Shakethedisease

skintmacflint wrote: »

I'd agree that last night she was bullied and more last night. At one point last night, I nearly felt sorry for her, but not so much tonight. She is a bully herself , and doesn't have the reputation of Nippy Nic which she doesn't mind at HR for no reason. If SNP have to rely or hope for Scotland not liking bullies to recover from this , then they have a huge problem. She could have totally turned this round, but didn't. Too used to working in Holyrood.

Sturgeon was at a disadvantage as she had much more to lose during the debates. As is always the case for anyone debating whose party is in government . She also had her newly established national reputation to defend.

Her strategists advised her badly in how she should have approached these debates. Her performance just confirmed my belief that neither she nor Salmond are suitably qualified to be in control of anything more than their existing devolved powers.

You make the big mistake of thinking these Scottish debates were all about Nicola Sturgeon.. They weren't, she more or less already has 40%+ votes in the bag... It was Jim Murphy that needed to perform really well and pull something back. Do you think he managed it ? It was all about Murphy tonight and last night. One shouldn't make the mistake thinking that Nicola's performances have lost her any support ( I shouldn't think so, despite everything she did ok ).. the real question is did Jim's performances win him any much needed support back ?

How do you think he did, as someone who is a floating voter ? ( genuine honest question, no sarcasm intended etc ).

Generali

Shakethedisease wrote: »

You make the big mistake of thinking these Scottish debates were all about Nicola Sturgeon.. They weren't, she more or less already has 40%+ votes in the bag... It was Jim Murphy that needed to perform really well and pull something back. Do you think he managed it ? It was all about Murphy tonight and last night. One shouldn't make the mistake thinking that Nicola's performances have lost her any support ( I shouldn't think so, despite everything she did ok ).. the real question is did Jim's performances win him any much needed support back ?

How do you think he did, as someone who is a floating voter ? ( genuine honest question, no sarcasm intended etc ).

Do they do proper polls of the 'winner' of these sorts of debates, ie not that Twitter rubbish which just shows which party has the most young supporters?

skintmacflint

Shakethedisease wrote: »

You make the big mistake of thinking these Scottish debates were all about Nicola Sturgeon.. They weren't, she more or less already has 40%+ votes in the bag... It was Jim Murphy that needed to perform really well and pull something back. Do you think he managed it ? It was all about Murphy tonight and last night. One shouldn't make the mistake thinking that Nicola's performances have lost her any support ( I shouldn't think so, despite everything she did ok ).. the real question is did Jim's performances win him any much needed support back ?

How do you think he did, as someone who is a floating voter ? ( genuine honest question, no sarcasm intended etc ).

Your 40% in the bag comment implies back at SNP headquarters you're already complacent, taking voters for granted. As well as displaying a contemptuous disregard for all non SNP voters. Of course she had to do well in these debates. And she failed, pretty spectacularly IMO.

You've probably forgotten that I'm no great fan of Mr Murphy. So if I assume correctly you mean as an undecided No voter, lulled into a false sense of security that voting SNP was a great and safe thing for Scotland , she lost and he won.

She was caught out like a rabbit in the headlights over SNPs obfuscation on the Neverendum question on both nights. Her laughing at this last night didn't help matters. In addition she was scorned by the audience at her hypocritical double speak suggestion that Murphy was shamelessly exploiting 'the poor' , and was exceptionally lightweight on other subjects.

As it happens I'd much prefer a continuation of Con/Lib Dem coalition. I'm not alone in not wanting to burden our grandkids and great grand kids with a huge debt burden in uncertain global,times. Because my generation know exactly how that works out, and I can assure you, it's considerably worse than any 'poverty' issues or conditions seen today.

Moby

Jim Murphy was very impressive