Salmond and Sturgeon Want the English Fish for More Fat Subsidies

Shakethedisease

ruggedtoast wrote: »

Sturgeon is betwixt a rock and hard place with the Neverendum. If she doesnt promise another one she will anger her traditional support base. But the SNP have picked up a lot of voters who dont want independence, but do want Scotland to have a distinctive voice within the UK.

These are a comparatively new acquisition and came on the back of a pretty certain guarantee that the independence referendum was now over.

Personally I doubt that the circle can be squared by the SNP, few political parties have coped well managing such diametric interest groups.

Her point that if you dont want independence then voting for the SNP isnt the best choice is probably a fair one.

Ironically enough Sturgeon's capability in the leaders debate might well make independence less likely. If people think that the SNP actually can call some shots in Westminster thenn the case for independence is lessened.

They should get back Alex Salmond asap. He was a to$$er who everyone disliked and just appeared like an angry fat stoat in Parliament. There was no chance he was ever going to get Scotland's way with anything. But Sturgeon, Sturgeon is a Tigress!

They won't go for another referendum until they can be sure of winning it. I think even the most rabid independence supporter understands that ( don't bother highlighting and saying that I'm the most rabid, I've already anticipated that ! )..
At the end of the day we ALL understand that there is absolutely no point having another referendum just to lose it. However, the SNP cannot rule out the possibility of having one if circumstances change. And no-one knows what the political landscape will look like, even in a few months time. There's no reason to commit, and certainly not right now, either way imho. It's just handing people like Murphy, and everyone else, a big stick to to beat the SNP with saying yes or no to one.

Many more powers, and as quickly as possible re this election is the SNP aim at the moment. And seems to be high on Scots voters agendas too this time round.

8/4/15

Voters appear to want more powers for the Scottish Parliament - beyond the proposals currently on offer, according to a new poll commissioned by BBC Scotland.
However, the nation seems divided over whether there should be another referendum on independence in the near future. Pollsters Ipsos Mori asked voters to give a score out of 10 to a range of policies which could be implemented by the next UK government. A ranking of one meant it should not be implemented, while 10 meant it should be implemented immediately.
Ipsos Mori surveyed more than 1,000 adults between 19 and 25 March.

Giving Holyrood power to increase benefits and pensions achieved an average score of 7.3 out of 10, a little higher than devolving full control of welfare benefits (7.1), full control of income tax (6.8) and full control of all policy other than defence and foreign affairs (6.5). Hold another referendum on Scottish independence within the next five years (5.6)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-scotland-32194983

.string.

Shakethedisease wrote: »

If you take into account the fact that I was in charge and steering the boat from the bow seat, then yes, if you say so.

Very symbolic. If you separated from your unionist friends, you'd be up the creek without a paddle.

elantan

lets see if Nicola gets things sorted for tonight

CLAPTON

Shakethedisease wrote: »

They won't go for another referendum until they can be sure of winning it. I think even the most rabid independence supporter understands that ( don't bother highlighting and saying that I'm the most rabid, I've already anticipated that ! )..
At the end of the day we ALL understand that there is absolutely no point having another referendum just to lose it. However, the SNP cannot rule out the possibility of having one if circumstances change. And no-one knows what the political landscape will look like, even in a few months time. There's no reason to commit, and certainly not right now, either way imho. It's just handing people like Murphy, and everyone else, a big stick to to beat the SNP with saying yes or no to one.

Many more powers, and as quickly as possible re this election is the SNP aim at the moment. And seems to be high on Scots voters agendas too this time round.

8/4/15http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-scotland-32194983

interesting the questions were 'increasing pensions and benefits '
but 'full control' of taxation

one wonders what the score would have been if the question was
'increase taxation to pay for higher benefits and pensions'

most of us would vote for higher pension and benefit whilst having lower taxation

presumably in Scotland the assumption is that the higher pensions and benefits for the Scots will be paid for by the English (especially Londoners)

elantan

its certainly not my assumption and no one that I know eitherClapton, but again you know this and are just trying to be argumentative again

Shakethedisease

.string. wrote: »

Very symbolic. If you separated from your unionist friends, you'd be up the creek without a paddle.

Oh string how could you !? It's Blades ! Rowing crews never, ever use the word paddles. My unionist friends are quite safe in the boat with me.. its when one or two of them go out of synch with the rest of us the boat starts tipping over.

* thinks we can put the rowing analogies to bed now..

Shakethedisease

elantan wrote: »

lets see if Nicola gets things sorted for tonight

I'll hopefully catch this one. To be fair it was the first time Jim and Nicola have faced each other since Jim doesn't do FMQ's etc. At least tonight they'll know a little more about what to expect.

elantan

Shakethedisease wrote: »

I'll hopefully catch this one. To be fair it was the first time Jim and Nicola have faced each other since Jim doesn't do FMQ's etc. At least tonight they'll know a little more about what to expect.

Aye this is true, I just hope she can deal with his lies this time as well as his undermining barbs

CLAPTON

elantan wrote: »

its certainly not my assumption and no one that I know eitherClapton, but again you know this and are just trying to be argumentative again

do you have a clear quote from nicola that she would support increase in taxes to pay for increases in benefits

is there a clear poll where the people of Scotland have said they support increased taxes to pay for increased benefits

we do have clear evidence that Scottish Labour politicians have bragged that the much of Labours' mansion tax will flow into Scottish coffers and we do know that the SNP and willing to back Labour.

Shakethedisease

elantan wrote: »

Aye this is true, I just hope she can deal with his lies this time as well as his undermining barbs

If she keeps hammering home on this 'biggest party' nonsense ( and gets Jim to finally admit it's not the case ) ..it'll be front page news tomorrow. I understand why he's doing it and sticking to the 'story' but it's not going to help Labour in the long run after May 7th if there is a hung parliament. The below article explains things beautifully re what the press will do if he does keep trotting that line out.

It's important to read this story in the Daily Mail today in that context. By saying that the SNP have vowed to "prop up Ed Miliband in Downing Street — even if he loses the election", they have redefined what it is to win an election in a parliamentary system — changing the goalposts from a functioning majority to biggest single party. In reality, if Labour and the parties to their left have a parliamentary majority, then no Tory government can survive long. But it doesn’t need to. If Cameron can stay even briefly as PM, then he can call a second election and use his party’s superior wealth to secure a better position against a Labour party already financially crippled by this vote.

In this context, Labour should be doing everything they can to ensure the goalposts stay where they are — who can command a parliamentary majority — and are not shifted to which one party is the biggest. Unfortunately for Ed Miliband, Jim Murphy and other Scottish Labour MPs are selfish enough to be more concerned about saving their own seats than they are about getting Cameron out of Downing Street. Because of this, they have repeatedly been saying, sometimes repeated by the UK party, that the biggest party gets to be the government. If we do end up with the circumstance outlined above — as seems reasonably likely, we can assume that these comments will be pulled from the shelf and repeated at Labour on loop. To put it bluntly, Murphy is making a Tory government more likely. This has been pointed out to him repeatedly. He seems not to care.

https://www.opendemocracy.net/ourkingdom/adam-ramsay/newspapers-are-preparing-for-coup-and-labour-is-doing-nothing-to-stop-them