Salmond and Sturgeon Want the English Fish for More Fat Subsidies

CLAPTON

Shakethedisease wrote: »

I used the words 'there' to mean England because rUK was a referendum thing, and NI,Wales have differing voting patterns/parties in play. However, in terms of general elections, by and large, what England votes for, ALL of us get. If neither Labour or Tories get enough seats in England to form a majority... then that's down to English voters. Not the SNP.

Anyway, I hardly think using the word 'there' is comparable to some of the headlines I've exampled and the Telegraph today.. Milliband is portrayed as a bit of a doofus... Nicola Sturgeon is 'the most dangerous woman in the politics'... There's a distinct underlying narrative there, especially when you couple it with Ashdowns comments and similar. Someone on twitter this morning was suggesting she be hanged !

"Save Bute House, but hang Sturgeon. A tree in Chtlle Sq gardens will do. #SNPout"

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/SNP/11509628/Nicola-Sturgeon-the-most-dangerous-woman-in-politics.html

Still, I suppose it only highlights just how much the SNP has them on the run at the moment. I don't think any of the election campaigns had the SNP figured in much after Sept.

of course the SNP respect all the political parties of the UK and acknowledge that they are all doing what they think is best for the union.
No vilification of any parties from the SNP.
e.g. no question of the SNP being willing to conspire to keep any particular party out of power even if they do get the largest share of the votes.

kabayiri

CLAPTON wrote: »

of course the SNP respect all the political parties of the UK and acknowledge that they are all doing what they think is best for the union.
No vilification of any parties from the SNP.
e.g. no question of the SNP being willing to conspire to keep any particular party out of power even if they do get the largest share of the votes.

I think they will genuinely have conflicting motivations.

They will be there to represent all the constituents, some pro-independence some not.

But they also have a Nationalist agenda and need to pursue tactics which will promote the independence cause.

kabayiri

Shakethedisease wrote: »

I used the words 'there' to mean England because rUK was a referendum thing, and NI,Wales have differing voting patterns/parties in play. However, in terms of general elections, by and large, what England votes for, ALL of us get. If neither Labour or Tories get enough seats in England to form a majority... then that's down to English voters. Not the SNP.
...

Clearly not true. All of Scotland could vote for Conservatives and help them win a majority.

A similar result would probably arise if all of Scotland voted Labour.

You end up with a guaranteed sizeable chunk of MPs in the ruling Labour party then.

The one option which does not guarantee you MPs forming the ruling party/coallition is to vote SNP !

So, what is it to be? Power or principles?

Generali

Shakethedisease wrote: »

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/SNP/11509628/Nicola-Sturgeon-the-most-dangerous-woman-in-politics.html

Still, I suppose it only highlights just how much the SNP has them on the run at the moment. I don't think any of the election campaigns had the SNP figured in much after Sept.

Not really. This just highlights what I was saying earlier. The English people want to be in a union with Scotland, not because of oil or whatever but because they are proud of their country and that country runs from Land's End to John O' Groats, it doesn't stop at Berwick.

The SNP aren't liked or trusted in any way in England. If they are going to be in Government in a constructive way they have a huge gap to fill.

.string.

Shakethedisease wrote: »

I used the words 'there' to mean England because rUK was a referendum thing, and NI,Wales have differing voting patterns/parties in play. However, in terms of general elections, by and large, what England votes for, ALL of us get. If neither Labour or Tories get enough seats in England to form a majority... then that's down to English voters. Not the SNP....

Sorry, Shakey, but that does not negate at all the point I made. You were, maybe unconsciously, revealing what the SNP think about the UK - namely that the SNP feels no involement in the UK except what can be screwed out of it.

.string.

CLAPTON wrote: »

of course the SNP respect all the political parties of the UK and acknowledge that they are all doing what they think is best for the union.
No vilification of any parties from the SNP.
e.g. no question of the SNP being willing to conspire to keep any particular party out of power even if they do get the largest share of the votes.

That last sentence of yours reminds of a point I wanted to make a little while ago but forgot about.

Our SNP posters here like to claim that there is a lack of democracy implit in the move against dealing with the SNP, basing their whining on a supposed large majority of SNPs coming from their party after the next GE. They claim Scotland is therefore ignored.

But that argument is self-evidently hypocritical since they have for a long time declared their intention never to work with the Tories even if they get a majority of votes in the UK.

Voltaire7

kabayiri wrote: »

There is no law about having to answer questions here you know.

Perhaps Thrug doesn't like loaded questions from someone likely to call people "doddery old fools"?

There isn't such a law? Imagine that! They stunning revelation by you has knocked me sideways!

Commenting that a poster failed to address a question asked of them can hardly be construed as an attempt to enforce such a law. Obviously, your awful judgement in this scenario should be bring into question your judgement on numerous other matters.

ruggedtoast

There will not be a hung parliament and the SNP seats won't make a difference to the eventual government.

It's hard for Indy lot to accept but the chance for independence has gone. You are all starting to sound like the housepricecrash people. Predicting something that never comes. You should just knuckle down and get on with your lives. 91 pages of this nonsense.

Shakethedisease

kabayiri wrote: »

Clearly not true. All of Scotland could vote for Conservatives and help them win a majority.

A similar result would probably arise if all of Scotland voted Labour.

You end up with a guaranteed sizeable chunk of MPs in the ruling Labour party then.

The one option which does not guarantee you MPs forming the ruling party/coallition is to vote SNP !

So, what is it to be? Power or principles?

No, all of Scotland could vote Conservative, but it most of England votes Labour then it's Labour.
If all of Scotland votes Labour, but most of England votes Conservative then it's Conservative ( as has happened more than a few times ).
If most of Scotland do not vote Labour or Tory, it still doesn't make any difference to the above two scenarios.

We've had sizeable chunks of Labour MP's in the 'ruling' party also on more than a few occasions. They vote in policies and laws via their UK party designed to keep a few south of England marginals happy and the occasional newspaper. Things that aren't always in Scotland's best interests, nor represent what their constituents want or their views.

Which in essence is why Scottish Labour has been in steep decline since 2010. The referendum just accelerated it. Time for a change now. And like I said, Westminster isn't the be and end all.

So in answer to your question, it would seem for a lot of Scots, that it's to be principles this time round. And lots of us don't care in the slightest who gets in this time round in Westminster either, to be absolutely honest. ( if that were the case, Labour would have rebounded very strongly in the Scottish polls long before now surely ?. Still time to change though ).

Shakethedisease

.string. wrote: »

That last sentence of yours reminds of a point I wanted to make a little while ago but forgot about.

Our SNP posters here like to claim that there is a lack of democracy implit in the move against dealing with the SNP, basing their whining on a supposed large majority of SNPs coming from their party after the next GE. They claim Scotland is therefore ignored.

But that argument is self-evidently hypocritical since they have for a long time declared their intention never to work with the Tories even if they get a majority of votes in the UK.

Not really, the Tories don't do well in Scotland ( 1 seat ) . The SNP only stand in Scotland. The can't really be seen to be propping up a government, that does so very badly ( repeatedly ) in Scotland.

And saying so very loudly, completely neuters Scottish Labour's claims of 'Vote SNP, get Tory'.. Has been a good campaign tactic you have to admit. And it's not like it would ever stop the Tories getting in if enough in England/Wales vote for them anyway.

Sorry, Shakey, but that does not negate at all the point I made. You were, maybe unconsciously, revealing what the SNP think about the UK - namely that the SNP feels no involement in the UK except what can be screwed out of it.

I'd leave the amateur psychology at home next time though.