Salmond and Sturgeon Want the English Fish for More Fat Subsidies

Generali

Lord Pants isn't trying to assuage fears. Like it or not, the SNP will need to do plenty to convince English voters that they're not in Parliament just to smash up the place just as the Tories spend much of their time and energies on trying to show that they place a value on welfare and Labour try to convince that they don't want to turn the UK into te Soviet Union.

The SNP carry certain baggage and are viewed with deep suspicion in England (and probably in Wales and NI too). SNP MPs must address that or English voters will push hard for them to be completely marginalised.

.string.

@Shakey - so you don't think the language is soothing away those fears eh?

Well look at your own language in your post where there are clear pointers which reveal the problem with the SNP, you being a local representative.

For example the remark:
“ The fact that parliament may be another hung parliament is down to the two biggest parties in England not getting an overall mandate there. “

Note the word "there".

Either Labour or Conservative may well get an overall majority “there”, taken as England. They will quite likely not get a majority in the UK. Westminster is not an English Parliament.

You might argue that by “there” you did not mean England but then in the next sentence you write ” Not the SNP's problem as they don't stand there.”

That phraseology. and much of the words used by SNP leaders indicates a lack of commitment to engage, a perpetuation of the "Us" versus "Them" mentality that has characterised the SNP for, well, ever. It boils down to the SNP not being about to participate constructively in the UK Parliament, being obsessed solely with Scotland being independent.

kabayiri

Voltaire7 wrote: »

You didn't really answer the question. Never mind.
...

There is no law about having to answer questions here you know.

Perhaps Thrug doesn't like loaded questions from someone likely to call people "doddery old fools"?

michaels

rUK and Scotland = Germany and Greece?

Suppose the Scots had voted for independence and kept the pound, with the drop in oil prices and Scotland's 8% of GDP fiscal deficit wouldn't they have been looking to rUK to bail out their banks and stand behind their govt bonds? And what price would the rUK have extracted, would we have insisted on austerity the way the Germans are now able to tell the Greeks what to do? Perhaps it would have been the most Pyrrhic victory ever where independence actually meant a lot more control from Westminster than devolution does....

Generali

michaels wrote: »

rUK and Scotland = Germany and Greece?

Suppose the Scots had voted for independence and kept the pound, with the drop in oil prices and Scotland's 8% of GDP fiscal deficit wouldn't they have been looking to rUK to bail out their banks and stand behind their govt bonds? And what price would the rUK have extracted, would we have insisted on austerity the way the Germans are now able to tell the Greeks what to do? Perhaps it would have been the most Pyrrhic victory ever where independence actually meant a lot more control from Westminster than devolution does....

In the event of Scottish independence the UK was going to continue to hold the debt and expect the Scottish government to remit coupon and principle repayments as they became due. Presumably coupon payments would have been made out of general taxation and principle paid by issuing fresh debt or by dipping into the Sovereign Wealth Fund that the SNP promised to set up using the surplus of taxation over expenditure that Scotland apparently remits to [STRIKE]those English bastads[/STRIKE] Westminster.

purch

Generali wrote: »

In the event of Scottish independence the UK was going to continue to hold the debt and expect the Scottish government to remit coupon and principle repayments as they became due.

We are a trusting lot :eek:

Generali

purch wrote: »

We are a trusting lot :eek:

There would have been no alternative. What do you think would have happened to the market for Gilts if there was a chance that 5% (say) of the debt was potentially going to be owed by a breakaway country run by a hard-left Nationalist party with an economy and revenues mostly reliant on a single commodity trading at an all time high in value with huge extra supply coming on stream?

kabayiri

Generali wrote: »

There would have been no alternative. What do you think would have happened to the market for Gilts if there was a chance that 5% (say) of the debt was potentially going to be owed by a breakaway country run by a hard-left Nationalist party with an economy and revenues mostly reliant on a single commodity trading at an all time high in value with huge extra supply coming on stream?

After my ScotNatLand-Cold-Turkey-Period (* patent pending) the emergent economy would be so lean n mean international investors would be falling over themselves to invest in an economy divested of such irritating overheads as paid public officials.

The resulting society of course may appear dystopian to the Socialists, but hey, what price f-r-e-e-e-e-e-d-e-r-m from the evil (and possibly alien) overlords in Westminster.

kabayiri

michaels wrote: »

rUK and Scotland = Germany and Greece?

Suppose the Scots had voted for independence and kept the pound, with the drop in oil prices and Scotland's 8% of GDP fiscal deficit wouldn't they have been looking to rUK to bail out their banks and stand behind their govt bonds? And what price would the rUK have extracted, would we have insisted on austerity the way the Germans are now able to tell the Greeks what to do? Perhaps it would have been the most Pyrrhic victory ever where independence actually meant a lot more control from Westminster than devolution does....

I have a Mr Spielberg on the phone; claims to have bought up the movie rights to this story. He isn't sure whether to file it under SciFi, Comedy, or Horror though.

The good news is that one Mel Gibson has signed up to play a leading Scottish role in the movie ....

...so that's Nicola Sturgeon sorted :rotfl:

Shakethedisease

.string. wrote: »

@Shakey - so you don't think the language is soothing away those fears eh?

Well look at your own language in your post where there are clear pointers which reveal the problem with the SNP, you being a local representative.

For example the remark:
“ The fact that parliament may be another hung parliament is down to the two biggest parties in England not getting an overall mandate there. “

Note the word "there".

Either Labour or Conservative may well get an overall majority “there”, taken as England. They will quite likely not get a majority in the UK. Westminster is not an English Parliament.

You might argue that by “there” you did not mean England but then in the next sentence you write ” Not the SNP's problem as they don't stand there.”

That phraseology. and much of the words used by SNP leaders indicates a lack of commitment to engage, a perpetuation of the "Us" versus "Them" mentality that has characterised the SNP for, well, ever. It boils down to the SNP not being about to participate constructively in the UK Parliament, being obsessed solely with Scotland being independent.

I used the words 'there' to mean England because rUK was a referendum thing, and NI,Wales have differing voting patterns/parties in play. However, in terms of general elections, by and large, what England votes for, ALL of us get. If neither Labour or Tories get enough seats in England to form a majority... then that's down to English voters. Not the SNP.

Anyway, I hardly think using the word 'there' is comparable to some of the headlines I've exampled and the Telegraph today.. Milliband is portrayed as a bit of a doofus... Nicola Sturgeon is 'the most dangerous woman in the politics'... There's a distinct underlying narrative there, especially when you couple it with Ashdowns comments and similar. Someone on twitter this morning was suggesting she be hanged !

"Save Bute House, but hang Sturgeon. A tree in Chtlle Sq gardens will do. #SNPout"

Nicola Sturgeon – the most dangerous woman in politics

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/SNP/11509628/Nicola-Sturgeon-the-most-dangerous-woman-in-politics.html

Still, I suppose it only highlights just how much the SNP has them on the run at the moment. I don't think any of the election campaigns had the SNP figured in much after Sept.