Landlord refusing to allow me to move on tenancy end date

rpc

anotheruser wrote: »

However DO NOT THINK THAT DATED PHOTOGRAPHS ARE PROOF.
Anyone can boot up a painting program and add a date to a photograph. While not a fool proof system, taking a photo of a newspaper, clearly, in the middle of your photographs would go a much longer way to proving the photographs were taken on that date.

Dated photographs are evidence, testimony from the OP is evidence, testimony from the witness is evidence. The three corroborate. Having the witness makes it much stronger than if it were OP and a photo.

You can strengthen the evidence by doing things like dated papers or a video with the BBC news running, but a plain old photo is still evidence. Remember that the bar to reach is "balance of probabilities." Is a witness more likely to perjure themselves in corroborating a doctored photo, or might they be telling the truth? LL would have to produce his own evidence to counter the two accounts and photo.

Incidentally, if the original photo was a JPEG (so from a phone camera or P&S, same doesn't apply to DSLR RAW files) then the recompression associated with editing is normally detectable.

McKneff

Why are you telling them what you are not going to do, its a waste of time and pointless.


Just tell them what you ARE going to do.

thesaint

Guest101 wrote: »

Out of curiosity what would you do in these circumstances?

As in, tenant leaves on last day and posts keys thru the door?

I had a tenant that was leaving inbetween christmas and New Year.
I told her to keep hold of the key until I could check that I had a spare.

Once I confirmed I had a spare, I texted her to let her know that she could either post it through the property door, or wait until the 5th Jan and bring it to the office.

My tenancy agreements state that should the tenant want to post the keys, they should send them by Special Delivery, and they will be reimbursed the cost.

Guest101

thesaint wrote: »

I had a tenant that was leaving inbetween christmas and New Year.
I told her to keep hold of the key until I could check that I had a spare.

Once I confirmed I had a spare, I texted her to let her know that she could either post it through the property door, or wait until the 5th Jan and bring it to the office.

My tenancy agreements state that should the tenant want to post the keys, they should send them by Special Delivery, and they will be reimbursed the cost.

That seems fair enough on both solutions.

Shame these agents dont follow suit.

deedee71

Slightly different situation, but I once had a lodger who informed me he would be moving out and had until midnight to do so as that was his right! I was just so glad he was leaving I agreed, he actually left at 10.30pm. People are strange.

I think the OP is being reasonable and shouldn't be forced to take a day of annual leave to suit a letting agent.

By the way, 31st Jan is my birthday, hope the moves goes smoothly. :beer:

questionss

Another option would be to offer to vacate on the 30th on the understanding that the landlord pays for a hotel & evening meal that night (assuming the flat is unfurnished and you don't have to store a lot of furniture etc).

BitterAndTwisted

It doesn't sound like the landlord is refusing anything, but that the letting-agent is seeking to impose restrictions to suit themselves.

I would do as G_M has advised although a tenant does not have any absolute right to attend the check-out inspection. I'd rather rely on detailed, dated photos and a witness.

benjus

silvercar wrote: »

I never understand the dated photos evidence. It would be too easy to take a photo on Monday 31st with Saturday's paper in shot.

A newspaper in a photo proves that the photo was taken on or after the date of the newspaper.

It would be possible (albeit rather hard work) to prove that a photo was taken on or before a date by printing it and posting it to yourself by Royal Mail Special Delivery, then keeping the sealed, unopened envelope until it is required as evidence. In theory it could be possible to do something similar with electronic communication, but it would have to be sent to and/or from a system which is completely trusted and cannot be tampered with, which is tricky in practice.

To prove a photo was taken on a specific date you'd have to do both.

sulphate

emilycharlotte wrote: »

This is what I intend to send to them:




I do not intend to move out on the date of 02/02/2015 and pay extra rent, neither do I intend to move out of the property early on 30/01/14, as you suggest. I will be moving out of the property on 31/01/2015. Please note that I am legally entitled to move out on my tenancy end date and this is my intention. Your firm can not lawfully refuse me my right to leave on my tenancy end date so this is the date I will be moving.


If your firm are unable to attend check out/ inspection of the property on this date then please inform me as to where I am to post my key and I will make arrangements for this. It would be appreciated if a checkout inspection could be arranged with myself being present after the end of the tenancy if this cannot be arranged on 31/01/14.

If you do send this or something like it (or haven't already) make sure the dates are 2015 not 2014 like a couple mentioned in this post.

franklee

benjus wrote: »

A newspaper in a photo proves that the photo was taken on or after the date of the newspaper.

It would be possible (albeit rather hard work) to prove that a photo was taken on or before a date by printing it and posting it to yourself by Royal Mail Special Delivery, then keeping the sealed, unopened envelope until it is required as evidence. In theory it could be possible to do something similar with electronic communication, but it would have to be sent to and/or from a system which is completely trusted and cannot be tampered with, which is tricky in practice.

To prove a photo was taken on a specific date you'd have to do both.

Given the tenant loses access to the property after checkout due to handing back the keys then a photo taken by the tenant will have been taken between the date the newspaper was published and the date of key handover inclusive. So that does prove the photo was taken during the checkout of that tenant not a long time before or after. Unless the tenant is good at photo shopping of course.

It's trickier if the landlord takes the photo as he will have access to the property afterwards so could take the photo later on with an old newspaper.

However if the tenant has their own photos to set against the landlord's they can show when it was taken as above. If the landlord sees the tenant taking photos he's less likely to tell porkies as he will know the tenant has evidence. So a tenant should take photos preferably with date evidence. He can also back this up with sending a letter or email to the landlord copied to himself as you suggest detailing what happened at checkout.