Euro Car Parks (Peterborough) / breastfeeding

thingamaBob

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Good points well made! She has a ticket following a windscreen ticket then and should complain (as you rightly say) and appeal as per the NEWBIES thread.

Sorry Coupon-mad, but maybe the point I was trying to make was not so clear. I was suggesting that there wasn't a windscreen ticket but that a PCN with photo's was issued but not received by her. In the absence of any response to the (missing) PCN, she has now received the follow-up NTK. Does this make sense?

I presume she should still appeal straight away using template from the Newbies thread and complain vigorously to the agents stressing the point about breast feeding and the insufficient amount of time allowed for shoppers to enjoy the facilities. e.g. the Sainsbury's restaurant and Costa coffee bar.
It is also worth complaining to Sainsbury's as I'm sure many, so far loyal, Sainsbury's customers would rather visit the adjacent Aldi, where they can shop in comfort without worrying about exorbitant speculative parking charges or how long they stay.

The OP mentions the Equality Act 2010. Should she include this in the appeal and/or the complaints. In my reading of threads on here I haven't seen any mention that this Act specifically includes Nursing Mothers but surely it applies to them just as much as any of the categories that are mentioned?

Coupon-mad

It reads to me as though this is the first letter though - and it really doesn't matter what happened to the windscreen PCN. You are right - the OP shoud appeal as per the NEWBIES thread. And if the dates in the OP are right, they sent it at day 25! Totally non-compliant unless the OP meant to say the parking event was November 4th, not December?

Also to the OP please, please don't say who was driving! DO NOT talk about who the driver was, so NOT 'I stopped to breastfeed my baby' unless you merely say you 'were an occupant of the car' and if you need to mention the driver do so in the third person only: 'the driver did this/that'.

dammit

Oh wow! Thank you all for your responses and taking your time to help. I am about to write my appeal and wondered if it would be OK to post here to check? I plan to copy to Sainsbury's and Costa, should I include the landowner as well?

Previous posters are right in that I don't have the original PCN - nothing on my windscreen and nothing in the post. The parking event was 4/12/14 and the first I heard about it was the notice to keeper on 29/12/14 stating that the driver had failed to pay the PCN amount within the time specified. It is a very brief letter, no photos, doesn't even include my time of entry so I can't even calculate how much I overstayed!

Interestingly, the wording on this letter says "as per the displayed terms and conditions at the site, the amount due has now increased (the discounted charges do not apply". I've had a good look at the sign and it mentions no initial cost and then an increase for failure to play, just a flat rate of £90, so the letter contradicts the signage!

dammit

I've slightly amended the template to mention breastfeeding and a few POFA regulations I don't think they've stuck by - would appreciate someone taking a look before I fire it off. I'm terrible with legalise but was hoping a bit of effort now might get it cancelled quickly rather!

Thank you in advance

Dear Sirs

Re: PCN No. ....................

I challenge this 'PCN' as keeper of the car, on these main grounds:

a). The sum does not represent a genuine pre-estimate of loss, nor is it a core price term. It is a disguised penalty and not commercially justified.
b). As keeper I believe that the signs were not seen, the wording is ambiguous and the predominant purpose of your business model is intended to be a deterrent.
c). There is no evidence that you have any proprietary interest in the land.
d). Your 'Notice' fails to comply with the POFA 2012 and breaches various consumer contract/unfair terms Regulations. In particular, I refer you to the following paragraphs:
d)i: 9(2) (a) – the notice I received dated 29/12/14 does not specific the period of parking. It unhelpfully states “Time 14:47” which neither indicates time of entry nor exit, nor the supposed period by which the driver overstayed.
d)ii: 9(2) (c) You have not made it clear in your letter dated 29/12/14 the means by which the requirement of parking charges was brought to the attention of drivers.
d)iii: 9(2) (d) The unpaid parking charges are not specified and as far as I am aware, the car park in question is free to use.
d)iv: 9(5) The first notice I received was dated 29/12/14 and this letter does not mention any date on which any other notice may have been sent. I can only assume no other notice has been given and this notice would exceed the 14 day period.
d)v: 9(7&10) I have not seen any accompanying evidence.
e). There was no consideration nor acceptance flowing from both parties and any contract with myself, or the driver, is denied.
f). This is not a 'parking ticket' - it is an unsolicited invoice
g) Most importantly, I believe that you are acting in breach of the Equality Act 2010, which supersedes any contractual law. The driver in question is a breastfeeding mother. She fed her child whilst on the premises and as such may have taken longer than other customers, accounting for any supposed overstay. A business cannot discriminate against mothers who are breastfeeding a child of any age. I am copying this appeal to retailers to let them know how outraged I am that Euro Car Parks are harassing a breastfeeding mother for a ridiculous penalty charge and that I will be advising new mothers against visiting Bretton Centre with their babies. Your clients should be thoroughly ashamed of the way you treat consumers visiting their premises and I will not hesitate to use social media to inform others.

Parking firms like yours fail to demonstrate even a basic understanding of customer service. The reputation of your business model appears to be more akin to a protection racket than 'parking management'. Your ATA may offer sound-bites about driving up standards or fight for motorists' rights but in reality they are not a regulator; they merely exist to represent the interests of paying members, in order to gain access to DVLA data. The public have no faith in the private parking industry and, as far as I have seen, your firm has not shown itself to be any different than the ex-clampers with whom you share a membership.

The purpose of this communication is:

1. Formal challenge
There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. As such, you must either rely on the POFA 2012 or cancel the charge. I suggest you uphold this challenge now or alternatively, send a rejection letter - subject to accepting my claim for costs as clearly stated below, since you have no case.

2. ''Drop hands'' offer
The extravagant 'parking charge' is baseless but I realise that you may have incurred nominal postage costs. Equally, I have incurred costs to date, for researching the law and responding to your junk mail dressed up to impersonate a parking ticket. It is clear that my costs and yours, at this point, do not exceed £15. Therefore, this is a formal “drop hands” offer. I remind you of the duty to mitigate any loss, so withdraw the spurious charge within 35 days without further expense and I will not pursue you for my costs. If you persist then I will charge in full for my time at £18 per hour plus my out-of-pocket expenses and damages for harassment.

3. Notice of cancellation of contract
I hereby give notice of withdrawal from this alleged 'contract' which was never properly offered by you and certainly was not expressly agreed. This 'contract' is hereby cancelled and any obligations now end. If you offer - and if I decide to use - POPLA, then the contract ends immediately on the date of their decision (whatever the outcome) so my notice of cancellation still applies. The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation & Additional Payments) Regulations apply now to every consumer contract, save for a few exemptions, which parking contracts are not. It is the will of Parliament following the EU Consumer Rights Directive, that express consent is obtained for consumer contracts now - not implied consent - and that information is provided in a durable medium in advance.

You have failed to meet these requirements. The foisting of unexpected contracts like this on consumers, by stealth, is a thing of the past.

By replying to the challenge you are acknowledging receipt and acceptance of points 2 and 3 above. If you decide to persist with this unwarranted threat, I will be put to unnecessary expense and hours of time in appealing or defending this matter. As such, you will be liable for my costs and a pre-estimate of my loss - and in contrast with yours, mine is genuine - is that this sum will be likely to exceed £100.

I have kept proof of submission of this challenge. I look forward to your considered reply within 35 days.

Yours faithfully,


{the registered keeper's name}

dammit

thingamaBob wrote: »

It sounds like the letter the OP has received is a second letter after the PCN and that the PCN has gone missing. Note she says "this letter dated 29/12/14..... which says that the driver has failed to pay the notice amount within the time specified and now the fine is increased to £90? I have 28 days to pay from date of this notice, but did not receive an initial notice with the reduced fine!"

They are using ANPR cameras at this site and I have a PCN from them which has pictures of the front and rear number plates with appropriate times underneath.

I believe the agents for the site are Wilkinson Williams and they can be emailed at g.imlah@wilkinsonwilliams.co.uk. (I sent a complaint email to that address before Christmas but got an out of office reply which said it would be read on 5th Jan. Also copied in CEO of Sainsbury's as anchor tenant)

I will be doing my own thread in due course but felt that the above may be of help here.

Thank you very much for this - I will also copy them into the complaint.

You're all such fountains of knowledge!

dammit

Also thinking of firing this off to Wilkinson Williams:

I wish to make a formal complaint about a breach of the Equality Act 2010 and Euro Car Parks Parking at Bretton Centre, Peterborough.
The Equality Act has specifically clarified that it is unlawful for a business to discriminate against a woman because she is breastfeeding a child.
However, on 29/12/14 I was issued with a Notice to Keeper following a Parking Charge Notice against the driver on 04/12/14 for overstaying the maximum period allowed. The charge is an extortionate £90. The driver in question is a breastfeeding mother and as such, her time spent feeding (whilst also spending money in the businesses on site) has not been taken into account. The Equality Act states that it is sex discrimination to treat a woman unfavourably because she is breastfeeding.
As a breastfeeding peer supporter, I am outraged that other women may also be caught out by Euro Car Parks whilst breastfeeding in Bretton Centre.
I am asking that, as agents for the site, you cancel this ridiculous penalty charge. If you are unwilling or unable, I will be advising new mothers to stay away from Bretton Centre. Life with a newborn is complicated enough without them having to deal with appealing ridiculous penalty charges from unscrupulous companies. I will also make it known to retailers on site that they may miss out on a significant amount of business as a result.


This is becoming a bit addictive though slightly annoyed that I've spent a significant chuck of the new year on this!

Coupon-mad

All looks good to me except you are quoting the POFA Schedule 4 para 9 when you should be quoting para 8 (if the Notice says a PCN was 'issued/served to the driver' and the driver hasn't paid). The paragraph 9 deadline of 14 days is not applicable to a case where there was a windscreen ticket (allegedly) first. They are not too late to send the NTK, they appear to be too early - which is worse!

Now, how about a complaint email to the BPA and DVLA, saying that ECP have dated a Notice to Keeper just 25 days after the stated parking charge notice date (which was never seen by the driver anyway). So, you think ECP have mucked up their dates one way or another and have obtained DVLA data too soon...see paragraph 8, they can only write after day 28 and are not allowed to get DVLA data before that. As such, say this is a 'serious breach of the BPA Code of Practice', to obtain DVLA data prior to 28 days after a parking event when it does not appear to be a ANPR camera issued Notice.

Attach a copy of the Notice.

Send to the email addies shown in post #6 of the Newbies thread. Don't add anything about the Equality Act to the BPA/DVLA complaint - it should only be about the dates.

thingamaBob

Just to let you know dammit, I have had a response from Mr Imlah who advises that Wilkinson Williams are only the Letting Agents and not the Managing Agents. The Managing Agents are apparently Savills and you should email Matthew Whiteley at mwhiteley@savills.com.

Mr Whiteley has asked me for a (further) copy of the receipt obtained on the day and it is looking hopeful that he will arrange cancellation of my PCN. He says that they are not looking to penalise genuine customers. On this basis, if you attach receipts with your email to him it may prompt a good result.

Edited to add: I have just received a response from Mr Whiteley to say that he will speak with the parking company and have my ticket rescinded.

dammit

Coupon-mad wrote: »

All looks good to me except you are quoting the POFA Schedule 4 para 9 when you should be quoting para 8 (if the Notice says a PCN was 'issued/served to the driver' and the driver hasn't paid). The paragraph 9 deadline of 14 days is not applicable to a case where there was a windscreen ticket (allegedly) first. They are not too late to send the NTK, they appear to be too early - which is worse!

Now, how about a complaint email to the BPA and DVLA, saying that ECP have dated a Notice to Keeper just 25 days after the stated parking charge notice date (which was never seen by the driver anyway). So, you think ECP have mucked up their dates one way or another and have obtained DVLA data too soon...see paragraph 8, they can only write after day 28 and are not allowed to get DVLA data before that. As such, say this is a 'serious breach of the BPA Code of Practice', to obtain DVLA data prior to 28 days after a parking event when it does not appear to be a ANPR camera issued Notice.

Attach a copy of the Notice.

Send to the email addies shown in post #6 of the Newbies thread. Don't add anything about the Equality Act to the BPA/DVLA complaint - it should only be about the dates.

Thank you very much for taking the time to read my appeal. Sorry if I'm being dense again but do I just assume it was a windscreen ticket as there was no PCN? The car park in question has signage to state that cameras are in use and other posters caught out in the same car park have commented that they received PCNs with photos. I thought either they've forgotten to send this or it was lost in the post.

dammit

thingamaBob wrote: »

Just to let you know dammit, I have had a response from Mr Imlah who advises that Wilkinson Williams are only the Letting Agents and not the Managing Agents. The Managing Agents are apparently Savills and you should email Matthew Whiteley at mwhiteley@savills.com.

Mr Whiteley has asked me for a (further) copy of the receipt obtained on the day and it is looking hopeful that he will arrange cancellation of my PCN. He says that they are not looking to penalise genuine customers. On this basis, if you attach receipts with your email to him it may prompt a good result.

Edited to add: I have just received a response from Mr Whiteley to say that he will speak with the parking company and have my ticket rescinded.

That's fantastic news Bob. I'll fire off my complaint straight away. I don't have receipts from the day and some was spent in cash but I used card in both Costa and Sainsbury's cafe so I imagine this will be on my bank statement - will this be enough do you think?

Thank you.