Should People Have Children If They Cant Afford Them

GobbledyGook

supermassive wrote: »

At least you TRIED to adopt, though. Many just bypass that entirely, or see it with snobbery due to selfish reasons.

Tbh I think the only selfish thing I've seen is trying to dictate how other people should feel or think with regard to the biggest decision of their lives.

I may be an evil cow, but I have more sympathy for someone heartbroken at being told they are infertile than someone who has smoked 50 a day being told they have cancer. That's not to say I don't have any sympathy for the smoker, but when you break it down to very simple and basic facts one is self inflicted and one is not. In much the same way I had slightly more sympathy for my husband's friend whose leg was broken when he was hit by a car than my husband who broke his when being an idiot drunk....

None of your posts give any thought to the mental anguish people feel when given the news of infertility. For some it is truly devastating. Imo removing all NHS funded IVF would be akin to removing all NHS funding for operations that are functionally cosmetic, but are done for mental health reasons.

Marisco

supermassive wrote: »

Which is how it should be done! You did it right

I think you missed out the "in my opinion" in your post.

sulphate

lulu_92 wrote: »

People "throw money at IVF" to have a child does not make the child a purchase - it makes it money damn well spent, but it is in no way the same as spending the same amount of money on a car or a designer handbag.

People do not have kids out of a material desire to own something.

Plus, what does it matter to the OP if people are "throwing" their hard earned cash at IVF? What concern is it to anyone else, other than the people involved, what people are spending their money on? Does it affect you in any way, shape or form? No? Then butt out.

People choose to spend their savings on IVF, a brand new car, a luxury holiday, a wedding, a house deposit, overpaying their mortgage, private school fees, or whatever else they might want or need at the time. Everyone has different needs and priorities. Just because someone chooses to spend £££ on something that YOU wouldn't buy, doesn't mean their priorities are "wrong", just different. Anyone who thinks that others should spend their money according to what THEY would do with it is just arrogant.

FBaby

Is it? Or do infertility and desperation to have a child... and adoption all go hand in hand? Your constant lack of a point is tedious.

And your constant going back on what you are saying is getting boring. On one hand you say it has nothing to do with infertility because anyone should consider adoption before having a biological child, then you go back to saying that infertility and adoption is directly related.

You're going around circles because you can't provide one clear response.

LilElvis

supermassive wrote: »

Thanks for permission to stop. :T

I think you'll find that my view is entirely a practical and moral one, not influenced by emotion or hormones like the views of those on here that have had children via IVF or when they weren't financially very stable etc.

Everyone seems to be so sure that their view is correct, yet would probably be the first in line to say "oh those poor children in care" or "oh they shouldn't be having kids, that lot!". It's a massive double standard that nobody with children is emotionally equipped to deal with.

Sorry, but it's true. The only reason some of you are denying your selfishness is by then saying things that talk about your selfishness :rotfl:

Children are to people that choose IVF without looking at other options, a considered purchase and nothing more until they're born.

Total tripe! Your posts have specifically mentioned your own rubbish upbringing and its impact on your view of what a parent requires. If this doesn't make it an emotional response on your part then I don't know what you would call it.

My daughter is not, and at no point ever has been, a purchase. That is truly offensive.

Two weeks ago I posted about how happy I was at watching her perform in her school nativity on the anniversary of the day she was conceived. Watching the ultrasound and seeing the flickering light of the 2 tiny cells being gently placed inside me was certainly the most moving experience of my life. She was my child at that moment.

Today is the anniversary of finding out that I was pregnant. It is also the anniversary of the day I lost my first baby. The happiest and saddest days of my life.

Judge me as much as you want. You don't know me, don't know what it is like to lose a child you long for. I've lost three, including my daughter's twin. Hopefully you will never know that pain.

lulu_92

sulphate wrote: »

Plus, what does it matter to the OP if people are "throwing" their hard earned cash at IVF? What concern is it to anyone else, other than the people involved, what people are spending their money on? Does it affect you in any way, shape or form? No? Then butt out.

People choose to spend their savings on IVF, a brand new car, a luxury holiday, a wedding, a house deposit, overpaying their mortgage, private school fees, or whatever else they might want or need at the time. Everyone has different needs and priorities. Just because someone chooses to spend £££ on something that YOU wouldn't buy, doesn't mean their priorities are "wrong", just different. Anyone who thinks that others should spend their money according to what THEY would do with it is just arrogant.

I would much rather spend every pound I could spare on IVF than a wedding, but we've already had the discussion about how much you should spend on a wedding on here before :rotfl:

I don't think it's "throwing money" at it either. That implies that people spend money on IVF for a guaranteed result. I can tell you that many of my friends spent what they could afford on IVF and only 2 had success.

supermassive

I don't think your hope has much to do with me not suffering the pain of miscarriage. It's incredibly unlikely to happen either way.

I take it most of you on here ranting on in ever increasing desperation to justify your selfish acts as selfless are in fact either parents, or cannot naturally conceive... or both.

I've said time and time again, not to consider all options before IVF, including adoption (which isn't specific to those who cannot conceive, but is an obvious, yet overlooked, choice to look at) is selfish and if you jump straight from infertility to IVF, you're doing so not for the child's wellbeing, but for your own selfish reasons. There are literally no other reasons if you haven't even bothered to approach the subject of adoption as an option.

FBaby

selfish acts, what selfish acts? I am a parent and have very happy children thank you. I think they would tell you they are very pleased to be born and part of this life. If my act to conceive them was selfish, they would agree it was a very good selfish decision.

sulphate

supermassive wrote: »

I don't think your hope has much to do with me not suffering the pain of miscarriage. It's incredibly unlikely to happen either way.

I take it most of you on here ranting on in ever increasing desperation to justify your selfish acts as selfless are in fact either parents, or cannot naturally conceive... or both.

I've said time and time again, not to consider all options before IVF, including adoption (which isn't specific to those who cannot conceive, but is an obvious, yet overlooked, choice to look at) is selfish and if you jump straight from infertility to IVF, you're doing so not for the child's wellbeing, but for your own selfish reasons. There are literally no other reasons if you haven't even bothered to approach the subject of adoption as an option.

I still can't really understand why it's selfish for infertile couples to go for IVF as their "first option" but it's not selfish for fertile couples to have their own children. And you have yet to provide an adequate response to this.

After all, aren't most things we do in life inherently selfish?

In the county in which I live, there are 750 children in care. The estimated number of people who live in the county is 700,000+. A rather small number of children for the amount of prospective adopters, don't you think. Particularly as the county adoption agency specifies that they are currently mainly looking for adoptive parents who can adopt sibling groups or disabled children. I don't think we, for example, would be allowed to adopt 2-3 children from the same family as we only have one spare bedroom. If we were to adopt a disabled child it would probably mean one of us giving up work and thus losing some of our financial stability. Plus, as first time parents, I am not sure we have the confidence or ability to cope with suddenly having a group of children to look after, nor a disabled child. That doesn't make us "selfish".

lulu_92

supermassive wrote: »

I don't think your hope has much to do with me not suffering the pain of miscarriage. It's incredibly unlikely to happen either way.

I take it most of you on here ranting on in ever increasing desperation to justify your selfish acts as selfless are in fact either parents, or cannot naturally conceive... or both.

I've said time and time again, not to consider all options before IVF, including adoption (which isn't specific to those who cannot conceive, but is an obvious, yet overlooked, choice to look at) is selfish and if you jump straight from infertility to IVF, you're doing so not for the child's wellbeing, but for your own selfish reasons. There are literally no other reasons if you haven't even bothered to approach the subject of adoption as an option.

I'm not a parent. I want to be but whether it happens or not isn't known yet.

People might not want to adopt, simple as. You can't make someone want to adopt if they don't want to. You might think they are selfish but I don't think they'll lose sleep over it when they have bigger things, like their fertility issues, to think about.

I know for a fact you will think that my personal reason for not adopting is selfish.

I sure hope this discussion continues - it will be a good read when I'm giving blood later. :rotfl: