Central Heating On 24/7

jamesd

Kimberley wrote: »

Ok, thanks guys, it's just that my hallway is freezing even though the heating is on and was just wondering if it would help if the heating was on low all the time.

Check the temperature control on the radiator to see whether it is set to a high enough temperature. That could be anything from a set of numbers like one to five to a temperature to set.

If that is set to the highest value or for a thermostat to your desired temperature and it isn't reaching that temperature your next stop is considering replacing the radiator or adding another one to get more heat output.

Radiators vary in their efficiency. Old ones just had a water channel part, then newer ones with fins were added that put out more heat for the same size of radiator panel. You could roughly double the heat output by changing from an old style type 10 (one water-holding panel, no fins) to a type 22 (two water-holding panels and two sets of fins). The type 22 would be a bit thicker than the older one. If you have one with less than two water-holding parts or less than two sets of fins you can increase the chance of hitting your target temperature by changing to the type 22.

There are also type 33 radiators with three sets of water channel panels and three sets of fins that have even more heat output than the type 22.

The Radiator Booster fan device is probably effective at boosting the output of a radiator if you need that extra bit of output even with a type 22 (or 33 if you can get one in the right size and acceptable depth) radiator.

You can also get programmable thermostatic radiator valves for £30-35 that let you set the desired temperature at various times of day for the area served by each radiator. If you have the heating off for a large part of the day you could deliberately set the hall radiator to overshoot the target temperature starting say an hour before the system turns off. That extra temperature will gradually decline over time but should help to keep it comfortably warm for longer.

Beyond those things are some really clever home heating control systems like the Honeywell Evohome. That one has individual thermostats on each radiator (assuming only one per room) with temperature display and a seven day central wireless programmer that you can move around anywhere. You can program the settings for each room on each day of the week at each time. The system will turn the heating on only when there's a need for heat in one of the rooms. You can temporarily override the programming from the central controller or by turning a dial on each radiator to do just that one room from inside the room. There's also the option of a phone-controller for the system for those who want even more control. Using this sort of thing you can set rooms to do things like have bedrooms cool down during the day, warm up for a while around usual bedtime then cool again while asleep and warm up again before waking time. using the room? Just twist the dial on the radiator and it'll use that temperature until the next programmed change time. You'd start with something like a base pack costing around £190 and say a set of four radiator controls for £230. Since this sort of setup turns on the central heating as needed it'll have it on just long enough to get and keep the temperatures you set.

jackyann

Andy_WSM wrote: »

It's always cheaper to turn it off when it isn't needed.

The amount of heat a house will lose is directly related to the temperature difference between the inside & the outside.

Keep the inside warm and heat will try to make it's way out. It's really as simple as that.

Do you keep your kettle simmering on the hob 24 hours a day? If not, why not? It's the same principle.

I'd say this isn't a direct comparison (see many previous posts on this issue)
Insulation is probably the biggest factor (longer for the heat to get out) but the mass of the dwelling and its situation (how long to heat up) makes a huge difference, along with the times heating is needed, air currents (layout of dwelling etc). That is before you are considering who it is for.

The amount of heat needed to get the dwelling to a comfortable
temperature may be so great that keeping it at say 17 degrees is probably more comfortable (and may or may not be more expensive)

I have posted a lot on this issue, on a lifetime's experience of heating all kinds of dwellings, with all kinds of systems, for all kinds of people from young, fit shift workers to frail & vulnerable.

There are so many individual factors that only careful observation & monitoring will tell. The biggest factor is insulation, and get as much of that as you are able.

Going back to the kettle: you can take a comparison too far, but IF you were heating water from frozen, several times a day for a lot of people, some of whom needed their hot drinks quickly or regularly, you might try to find a way of keeping the water simmering (and actually, I have done that too, although the water was just above frozen!)

jamesd

There are exceptions but in general if it takes a while to get to the target temperature all you have to do is set the starting time for the target temperature earlier or temporarily higher to give more time or temperature difference between air and walls to get there on time, or install a radiator with higher heat output.

A hall is quite likely to have a lot of draughts and looking at those sources would probably be useful, since draught reduction is cheap and very effective.

Or maybe the rooms that aren't in use off the hall have their doors open so the radiator)s) there aren't just heating the hall, they are also heating the unused rooms. Just closing those doors would help with that. Bonus energy saving and comfort improvement for putting draught excluding strips around the door.

oldskoo1

I went through this a few years ago. I found that when I lowered it from 20c on timed to 18c on 24/7 the cost was very similar or marginally more. It's actually very hard to judge unless you have very similar weather conditions.

I then found it cheaper still to lower it to around 14-15c overnight.

Then quite honestly it's cheaper still to have it come on when you need it but at that lower temp of 18c. I work from home some days so I keep my office trv on high and the heating goes off after breakfast. I just boost when the office gets cooler. When we are all out the heating comes on in the morn then off in day and back on in plenty of time for it to feel hot again when we get back. All you need to do is play with your timings.

When it gets colder outside I adjust the boiler flow temperature so I don't have to mess with the timers much. Now when it's 5-10c its on 5 of 6 and when it's minus I put the boiler on full at 6 to help it get hotter quicker. If I leave it on 6 the boiler doesn't cycle when it's warmer outside and uses more gas.

You do need to fix drafts as they do play havoc with wall stats just a simple draft excluder would help a bit. Make sure rad is on full if your stat is in the hall.

Ps if you have poor insulation, lots of drafts etc 24/7 heating can get very costly, always take meter readings as a test and do it on days where the temp outside is the same or very similar.

In a nutshell
Lowering from 20c to 18c was cheaper
Then putting it on timed on days we were out was cheaper
On days we are in all day when it's mild outside it stays on timed and we boost
When it gets colder we keep it on 6am to 10pm on 18c
Having it heat overnight is like throwing money away.

Pincher

The hallway is where the main thermostat is located traditionally.
The assumption is if the hallway is at the target temperature, then all the other parts of the house is that warm or warmer.


You can increase flow to the hallway radiator and make it warmer, but it could make the boiler click off early, so you have a warm hallway, but cold rooms. The whole thing is a balancing act, or tuning exercise.

oldskoo1

Pincher wrote: »

The hallway is where the main thermostat is located traditionally.
The whole thing is a balancing act, or tuning exercise.

Yes if your rad is right next to the stat it's going to cut the boiler off early. With any luck in a typical system the stat wil be located roughly at the opposite side of the wall and further away. The hall rad should be further a long the loop from the boiler and therefore have slightly cooler flow water in an unbalanced system. So once the hall gets up to temp everything else should too.

Balancing and tuning can make a big difference to gas consumption. It's actually important and tricky to get right. In our new house out hall is large and cold when we moved in. The radiators were horribly balanced. The upshot was the hall stat was located on the opposite wall and at 18c and because the radiator was cool the boiler stayed on ages. Other rooms got well over 21c before the hall stat was satisfied. It took over 1hour to raise 1c. Now I've tuned it and it takes 27mins. :beer:

Andy_WSM

jackyann wrote: »

I'd say this isn't a direct comparison

The same laws of physics apply. Unless you know different?

In all circumstances it will be cheaper to have the heating off / not keep a kettle simmering. ALWAYS. That cannot be disputed. Doing so just confuses people. Every dwelling is different. Insulation properties etc. So the differences in cost will vary. But the laws of physics do not change.

Cardew

Andy_WSM wrote: »

The same laws of physics apply. Unless you know different?

In all circumstances it will be cheaper to have the heating off / not keep a kettle simmering. ALWAYS. That cannot be disputed. Doing so just confuses people. Every dwelling is different. Insulation properties etc. So the differences in cost will vary. But the laws of physics do not change.

That post should become a sticky - not that we haven't tried to persuade the mods to do so in previous years.


There must be half a dozen similar threads each year, and every time we get posts that are either mischievous or someone wanting to expound their own pet(and mistaken) theory.


What nobody can do on a internet forum is quantify just how much extra it will cost to keep the heating on 24/7 as it depends on several unknown factors. - mainly insulation properties and the desired temperature.


For the same reason, there is also no way to quantify if having heating on 24/7 at, say, 18C is cheaper than timed at, say 20C.

Cardew

jackyann wrote: »

Going back to the kettle: you can take a comparison too far, but IF you were heating water from frozen, several times a day for a lot of people, some of whom needed their hot drinks quickly or regularly, you might try to find a way of keeping the water simmering (and actually, I have done that too, although the water was just above frozen!)

Well of course you might want to keep the water simmering in those circumstances - but it ain't cheaper!


Similarly there are plenty of reasons why people want to have their heating on 24/7 - but it also ain't cheaper than having heating timed.

lonestar1

Does the hallway radiator need bleeding ?