Bah humbug!

Lily-Rose_3

margaretclare wrote: »

Thanks for the good wishes. It was only discovered on postmortem that she had an undiagnosed heart condition called coarctation of the aorta. Undiagnosed, it causes strain on the heart, high blood-pressure, and ultimately, heart failure. A narrowing, causing the heart to have to work harder and harder. She died very suddenly. I'd been speaking to her at tea-time and by 9 pm her husband phoned us to say she was dead. She was just 39.

She was one of the people who made a lot of Christmas, in fact, she was probably the last.

Awww, I am so terribly sorry to hear this margaretclare. How sad for you. I can't imagine how devastating this must have been for you. It must be such a hard time of year for you now. I have a daughter, (20) so can only imagine how you are feeling.

I lost my parents, and my husband lost his (all 4 within 7 years or so,) and it was hard going. (The last one was about 7 years ago,) and it was hard, but losing your daughter must have been very tough.

I am really really sorry. :A

Georgiegirl256 wrote: »

Now is not the time to stir. Lily meant no harm.

Really sorry to hear about your daughter margaretclare.

Bless you Georgie. Thank you. :A You're a sweet person.

Once again, bless you margaretclare, and your lovely hubby. I hope he has a good 80th birthday, and I hope you have a peaceful Christmas together.

Lily-Rose_3

eamon wrote: »

Interesting thread this. I'm also an orphan (40 years now) so Christmas is not as particularly jolly as I imagine it could be if my parents had been around a bit longer. However I make an effort and thanks to some very special friends that have invited me into their home for the last 20 years it turns into a great knees up. Sadly my friends are also now orphans as their elderly father passed away in September. Still we will have a grand day, loads of food, alcohol, movies etc. Crisp £ Note is struggling to do too much in my opinion but her choices/options are all rubbish and whatever decision she makes will not seem right.

Hope you have a fab Christmas with whoever you spend it with.

Person_one

heuchera wrote: »

I don't really understand what your problem is to be honest.

The idea of Christmas is celebrating the birth of Christ. That is the etymology of the word. It does not matter if people these days are actually religious or not. That is what the word Christmas means.


Of course there are other festivals.

Celebrating the birth of Christ is just one thing that Christmas can be about, if that's something that is important and meaningful to you.

For others, Christmas can be about sharing food and gifts with loved ones, about a bit of festivity to cheer up the dark cold days in the middle of winter or about some of the hundreds of traditions that have formed around the time of year (many pre-dating Christianity by a long time!).

Both are perfectly valid, neither is right or wrong.

It's called Christmas because the Christian religion was so powerful in this country for so long and found that it was easier to convert the pagans by combining the old with the new. Same happened with Easter of course.

notanewuser

heuchera wrote: »

I do feel sorry for shop assistants at this time of year. As for the 4am start, oh my goodness.. Are people that desperate to buy things?

Doors don't open till 5am.

I went once. It was the year my dd was born and stage was around 12 weeks old at xmas and still waking regularly through the night. I said to DH that If I hapoened to be awake I would go (there's one about 5 minutes from my house). I got there at about 7am and queued outside in the freezing cold for about 45 mins.

I got inside, walked around for about 10 mins, saw the queue to pay was around 1.5 hours long (they have signs up). Thought to myself that there was nothing I wanted enough to queue that long and walked out empty handed. The security staff were gobsmacked.

The Boots next door opened at 8am and I bought DD about £50 of reduced clothes in there!!! :rotfl:

Torry_Quine

I think it's a shame when people feel they can't have the Christmas they want, whatever the form of it.

I do remember an elderly relative being shocked when we said that we were having Christmas on our own without them.

margaretclare

Thanks to everyone who expressed kind thoughts and sympathy. Very much appreciated.

It seems a bit ironic that, a few pages back in this discussion, that I was pointed out as the person who would bring religion into any thread about Christmas. Really ironic that. Yes, the 'clue is in the name'!

We're all well aware that Jesus probably wasn't born on 25th December. That doesn't matter. We celebrate his birth anyway.

I have friends who keep to an older religion, what they call the 'eald hus', deities like Woden, Tiw, Thor etc. Christmas Eve is called 'M[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]oþ[/FONT]ranicht' or Mothers' Night. They wish me 'Gl[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]æ[/FONT]d Geol' or Glad Yule. When they die, we say they have 'fared forth', into another life that is. I also have in-laws who keep Hannukkah. The point is, they all call this particular celebration by their names for it. They don't call it 'Christmas' and then say 'oh but of course it isn't to do with Christianity'.

What DH and I like to do is to enjoy each other's company for as long as we may both be on this earth at the same time. I don't really understand why some of the older relatives discussed here would want to put people to such a lot of inconvenience just because they must see the children on that particular morning. Surely they realise it's a lot of unnecessary stress and hassle, rushing about the countryside to ensure everyone's expectations are met?

notanewuser

margaretclare wrote: »

I have friends who keep to an older religion, what they call the 'eald hus', deities like Woden, Tiw, Thor etc. Christmas Eve is called 'M[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]oþ[/FONT]ranicht' or Mothers' Night. They wish me 'Gl[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]æ[/FONT]d Geol' or Glad Yule. When they die, we say they have 'fared forth', into another life that is. I also have in-laws who keep Hannukkah. The point is, they all call this particular celebration by their names for it. They don't call it 'Christmas' and then say 'oh but of course it isn't to do with Christianity'.

The problem is there isn't a word for the "celebration" that those of us who follow no religion have. :think:

margaretclare wrote: »

What DH and I like to do is to enjoy each other's company for as long as we may both be on this earth at the same time. I don't really understand why some of the older relatives discussed here would want to put people to such a lot of inconvenience just because they must see the children on that particular morning. Surely they realise it's a lot of unnecessary stress and hassle, rushing about the countryside to ensure everyone's expectations are met?

I completely agree with you there. If any of DD's grandparents/relatives want to see her at any time they can use Skype!

heuchera

margaretclare wrote: »

It seems a bit ironic that, a few pages back in this discussion, that I was pointed out as the person who would bring religion into any thread about Christmas. Really ironic that. Yes, the 'clue is in the name'!

Yes, to snipe at someone for having the gaul to bring Jesus or the church into a discussion about Christmas was a bit odd! People are free to believe or not believe whatever they wish, but to say Christmas is nothing to do with Christianity makes no sense at all.

I think there are several modern alternative words for people who reject the idea of a Christian festival. Winterval is one of them.

Present-buying is a tradition which stemmed from the gifts brought by the Magi. There are lots of traditions and customs which were Christian or religious in origin, even if people are not as religious nowadays.

notanewuser

heuchera wrote: »

I think there are several modern alternative words for people who reject the idea of a Christian festival. Winterval is one of them.

I'll try it the next time someone asks me and see whether they get it. :rotfl:

Out of interest, what are the others?

heuchera wrote: »

There are lots of traditions and customs which were Christian or religious in origin, even if people are not as religious nowadays.

Again, many pre-date christianity or were pinched by it. Which others were you thinking of?

BarryBlue

The thought of having to spend Christmas, or any other time, cooped up with family while pretending to enjoy ourselves fills me with horror. We don't celebrate any of the fictional nonsense that surrounds Christmas anyway, so there would be no reason for anyone to come and 'celebrate' with us.

I can understand that people with children may wish to have a festive time with them. It is also understandable that people who do actually believe in Jesus, etc, may wish to do so. To many it is just another excuse for a booze-up and a chance to waste money buying tat and food that nobody wants.

I make no bones about being a Bah Humbug but frankly I see no reason to make Xmas special. We have our own celebrations and enjoyment throughout the year when and with whom we like.