MNP Early Termination Penalty (T-Mobile)

face-t

Yes I know about this thread
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4363143

I just want to simplify the answers given - as some T-mobile reps may try to blur the minds of future readers, and after reading 9 pages not so uniform stories, with different answers provided I can only bet all is blurred!

SO please please only answers answering to given points - not for me - for everyone.

This is my bill
[IMG]http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/MNP Early Termination Penalty (VAT Exempt)[/IMG]

My contract minimum term: 15.10.2014
Number transferred to Vodafone: 14.10.2014 [so 1 day earlier]
My monthly contract: £26
Notice given on: 15.09.2014, to end contract on: 15.10.2014.

1. Can they charge me for ending contract 1 DAY early - [please link T&C if you say YES, elaborate why NO]
2. How amount for -MNP Early Termination Penalty- £13.64 is being established [please provide link to T&C]
3. What is and how is established, amount of £7.94, for Notice Period Charge [please provide link to T&C]
4. Where is full T&C for T-mobile
5. Is it even legal to charge EXTRA for not providing a service ? [it is like paying up front to get 4 walls painted, and then being charged extra for painting only 3 walls]
6. Any threads with folks challenging it with someone else [CISAS maybe?] then with t-mobile themselves as I don't fancy pay extra for calls or spend hours on a phone. Eventually over e-mail with templates?
7. Someone received a refund based on a Direct Debit warranty? SO only dealing with bank?

Thank you.


PS by the way another thread that is worth looking at while on it:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5064278

gjchester

face-t wrote: »

1. How amount for -MNP Early Termination Penalty- £13.64 is being established [please provide link to T&C]
2. What is and how is established, amount of £7.94, for Notice Period Charge [please provide link to T&C]
3. Where is full T&C for T-mobile
4. Is it even legal to charge EXTRA for not providing a service ? [it is like paying up front to get 4 walls painted, and then being charged extra for painting only 3 walls]
5. Any threads with folks challenging it with someone else [CISAS maybe?] then with t-mobile themselves as I don't fancy pay extra for calls or spend hours on a phone. Eventually over e-mail with templates?
6. Someone received a refund based on a Direct Debit warranty? SO only dealing with bank?

First with regards to the T&C I can't point you at a web site, as the website has the latest ones, which are EE based. The ones in force for you are the ones you signed up to. They may be different to what is on the web.


1 Yes, you signed up for a contract with a minimum period, if you don't meet that commitment then you will be charged a termination fee. This may be waived in some cases due to customer goodwill.


2 ETF's should be time left x monthly rental, so if you monthly rental is £30, and you leave 30 days early it should be £30. 1 Day should be £1 (Assuming a 30 day month). However you may have paid more in advance due to billing cycles is the calculated amount may not be exactly what you pay.


5. They are not, you are paying for either service, or a fee for lack of notice, all of which you would have agreed to at the time you took the contract out. Using your wall analogy its akin to you asking someone to paint 4 walls but then you decide you only want three once they have started, you've already contracted to have all four done so are liable for the full cost.


6. No idea if people are challenging but CISAS will not take on any case until its been through the mobile complaints process. If you go straight to CISAS without trying to contact TM, CISAS will simply point you back to TM's customer service.


7. The DD warranty is for incorrect DD's This is not really the case here, in the sense the money is dues, the issue is the amount. You could use that but it would then leave the money outstanding on the TM account, which could be passed to debt collectors etc. You need to sort out the bill with TM, to get it resolved, rather than simply not pay. Not paying would also be a breech of your contract and if it went to court may count against you.




The reason there are different responses in other threads are a lot depends on the customer, If you are a high spending customer you will get more leeway than a low spending customer, and there is some degree of goodwill available. However goodwill is not a legal right just something companies do to try and keep customers

Silk

face-t wrote: »

3. Where is full T&C for T-mobile
4. Is it even legal to charge EXTRA for not providing a service ? [it is like paying up front to get 4 walls painted, and then being charged extra for painting only 3 walls]

Just to clear up gjchester's excellent post ...


3 assuming it was a 24 month contract the T&C's are here ....
http://ee.co.uk/content/dam/ee-help/Help-PDFs/TMUK_PAYM_TERMS_V58C.pdf


4. Yes it is legal, they are providing the service but you are choosing not to use it.
Plus using your example if you agree a job price and enter a contract to have 4 walls painted but later change it to 3 walls knowing there is a penalty charge and without negotiating a reduction the original contract will stand.

grumbler

face-t wrote: »

Yes I know about this thread
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4363143

I just want to simplify the answers given - as some T-mobile reps may try to blur the minds of future readers, and after reading 9 pages not so uniform stories, with different answers provided I can only bet all is blurred!

SO please please only answers answering to given points - not for me - for everyone.

This is my bill
[IMG]http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/MNP Early Termination Penalty (VAT Exempt)[/IMG]

My contract minimum term: 15.10.2014
Number transferred to Vodafone: 14.10.2014 [so 1 day earlier]
My monthly contract: £26
Notice given on: 15.09.2014, to end contract on: 15.10.2014.

1. Can they charge me for ending contract 1 DAY early - [please link T&C if you say YES, elaborate why NO]

YES - about £1 and IF this one day wasn't paid in advance.

How amount for -MNP Early Termination Penalty- £13.64 is being established [please provide link to T&C]

Why are you asking us, not them?

What is and how is established, amount of £7.94, for Notice Period Charge [please provide link to T&C]

--"--

Is it even legal to charge EXTRA for not providing a service ?

It's legal to charge for not providing, e.g. ETC. Don't know what you mean by extra.

face-t

gjchester, Silk, grumbler
thanks for replies

---4. They are not, you are paying for either service, or a fee for lack of notice, all of which you would have agreed to at the time you took the contract out. Using your wall analogy its akin to you asking someone to paint 4 walls but then you decide you only want three once they have started, you've already contracted to have all four done so are liable for the full cost.

4. just to clarify this point - I have had 24 months contract. 24th payment [counted it and got worried when I counted 25 bills - 25th being penalty - as on picture] of £26+usage was already collected before the end of the contract, as it is being charged up front.
So the analogy: pay up front to paint 4 walls, decide to paint only 3 get charged for changing decision and less service provided.

But my point is different I have agreed to pay 24months * £26 + usage. I see no problem to pay £624+usage at any point when quitting contract. This is what I meant by - paying EXTRA for providing less service when whole £624 is already paid.

So at the point of using PAC, and switching to Vodafone I have had pay all £624. I could only expect a bill with outstanding usage.
But I get this
http://postimg.org/image/g4uqtnw9h/

Why are you asking us, not them?

Just trying avoid discussion. If someone knows, there have to be a source [link in this case ]

Not paying would also be a breech of your contract and if it went to court may count against you.

Paid - I was thinking of recovering it this way.

gjchester

First please be careful when multiquoting, you made it look like they were Grumblers points when some were mine.

face-t wrote: »

So the analogy: pay up front to paint 4 walls, decide to paint only 3 get charged for changing decision and less service provided.

Sort of, back to the wall analogy, You agreed to paint the 4 walls and the contract agreed then you change your mind and want three done.
You may get a refund because there's less time and materials, but its also possible that the paint has been bought and the labour already paid for, and you get no refund. There's nothing you can do, you didn't see out the contract. You could also be liable for any of the other parties costs if its related to you stopping the contract early, (Lets say having to hire scaffolding to do the roof, and a penalty for returning it early.)

And yes I realise that the networks don't "buy minutes" as such like you buy paint, but the contract is still there, they may offer you goodwill and let you off the cost of some of the tarrif but that's not a right.

face-t wrote: »

Paid - I was thinking of recovering it this way.

But then you'd not be paid up, the account may be reopened as you still owed monies.

Frozen_up_north

The OP broke the terms of the contract by using a PAC code early, which terminated the contract. It might have only been one day early, but it nevertheless it was early.

Therefore being charged an early termination penalty and a notice period charge applies. The fact they amount to several times the shortfall is irrelevant.

Common sense should have prevailed, but sadly the bills are generated automatically and it will be difficult to argue the case. Perhaps sweet talking to the T-Mobile CS Centre might result in a reduction.

d123

face-t wrote: »

4. just to clarify this point - I have had 24 months contract.

No, you didn't.

You agreed to an ongoing contract with a 24 month minimum term.

The contract also stipulates a 30 day notice period is required.

You are allowed to give notice at any time (and incur the ETP up to the end of the minimum term) or from 30 days prior to the end of the minimum term to end without penalty at the end of the minimum term.

face-t

Silk wrote: »

3 assuming it was a 24 month contract the T&C's are here ....
http://ee.co.uk/content/dam/ee-help/Help-PDFs/TMUK_PAYM_TERMS_V58C.pdf.

more T&Cs here and especially here but nowhere is specified how charges are being calculated.

Terminating this Agreement. You can phone Us and give 30 days’ notice to terminate this entire Agreement with effect from the end of (or after) the
Minimum Term. You may have to pay a Cancellation Charge, totalling the rest of the Monthly Charges for the remainder of the Minimum Term, less 4%.
(See points 7.2 and 7.3 of these terms and conditions.)

So what is the equation for
CANCELLATION CHARGE = [ the Charge which totals the rest of the Monthly Charges for the remainder of the Minimum Term, discounted by 4%]

My contract minimum term ends on: 15.10.2014
Number transferred to Vodafone: 14.10.2014 [so 1 day earlier]
My monthly contract: £26 [paid all 24 months before porting]
Notice given on: 15.09.2014, to end contract on: 15.10.2014.

CANCELLATION CHARGE = ???? ??? ?

CANCELLATION CHARGE = Early Termination Penalty + Notice Period Charge ????

and yet what/where is: Notice Period Charge or Early Termination Penalty in T&C


Heureka [kind of], it is only Orange but can give a clue. Charge is pro rata.
http://ee.co.uk/content/dam/ee-help/studio.orange.co.uk/service_plans/downloads/OUK_PAYM_Non_Standard_PG_140113_v0.2.pdf





Answer not adding to discussion:::::

d123 wrote: »

No, you didn't.

Look at first post. I made sure to give a notice, to have exactly 24months - in fact I have had 24months ))) contract

I'm also sure this is my last contract. Can't accept charges not specified in T&C, nor ways of calculating them. Internet is full of TMobile questions and there is a reason, there is no 100% specific answers.

Silk

face-t wrote: »

more T&Cs here and especially here but nowhere is specified how charges are being calculated.

The T&C's which apply to you are the ones I gave you the link to .....which are the pre 30th Oct 2012, non of the others are relevant.
As you ported the number out before the contract reached minimum term then charges apply which you agreed to.

face-t

Silk wrote: »

The T&C's which apply to you are the ones I gave you the link to .....which are the pre 30th Oct 2012, non of the others are relevant.

Providing more links in case someone stumbles upon it

As you ported the number out before the contract reached minimum term then charges apply which you agreed to.

not in any post I have said, I didn't sign agreement including 'charge'
although if you can point me to place in agreement which explains
what is and method of calculation of:
CANCELLATION CHARGE
Early Termination Penalty
Notice Period Charge ????

I think it would solve problem of dozens if not thousands people- looking for answers

look at my previous post - Orange have/or had an explanation to what is Early Termination Penalty- try to find answer even looking trough EE forum. It doesn't exist!