Stay or go? EU poll - Oh the irony.

ruggedtoast

CLAPTON wrote: »

given your often expressed views about the wonders of the EU, about faux racism etc it is a wonder that you abandoned all these benefits to go live in a small little country of 23million without any of the benefits of rule by unelected collective of failed European politicians.
Think about it : you have the burden of deciding your own spending and taxation policies, your trading policies, your immigration and foreign policies, whether to have siphonic flush systems or valve operated, what level of biofuels to burden the world with.
Just look at the burden that must be placing on your limited resources.
And what does the future hold : more of the same; you will probably be doomed to retain trial by jury of your peers whilst we can look forward to integration of our legal system with European judge led system.

And let's reflect how you left one of the least racist and misogynistic country in the world, to live in one that, by common consent is probably the most racist and misogynistic 'western' style country.


Like all those 'London' Scots that wanted to have an independent Scotland whilst never dreamt of actually living there, you wax lyrical about the wonders of straight bananas whilst enjoying the bendy ones elsewhere.


judge by the action of people rather than fine words.

Currently a lot of my Facebook aussie friends are freaking out about how right wing and xenophobic Australia is becoming.

Maybe you should fill out an application yourself. Sounds right up your street.

Generali

CLAPTON wrote: »

given your often expressed views about the wonders of the EU, about faux racism etc it is a wonder that you abandoned all these benefits to go live in a small little country of 23million without any of the benefits of rule by unelected collective of failed European politicians.
Think about it : you have the burden of deciding your own spending and taxation policies, your trading policies, your immigration and foreign policies, whether to have siphonic flush systems or valve operated, what level of biofuels to burden the world with.
Just look at the burden that must be placing on your limited resources.
And what does the future hold : more of the same; you will probably be doomed to retain trial by jury of your peers whilst we can look forward to integration of our legal system with European judge led system.

And let's reflect how you left one of the least racist and misogynistic country in the world, to live in one that, by common consent is probably the most racist and misogynistic 'western' style country.


Like all those 'London' Scots that wanted to have an independent Scotland whilst never dreamt of actually living there, you wax lyrical about the wonders of straight bananas whilst enjoying the bendy ones elsewhere.


judge by the action of people rather than fine words.

So now we're on to the ad hominem attacks. Grub.

antrobus

CLAPTON wrote: »

....And let's reflect how you left one of the least racist and misogynistic country in the world, to live in one that, by common consent is probably the most racist and misogynistic 'western' style country.....

If you mean 'Australia' then you are probably wrong.

The World Values Survey seeks to measure the extent of racism across the world. Its data shows that the United Kingdom and its former colonies (the United States, Canada, Australia and New Zealand) are among the least racist in the world. They did not find, in particular, that there was much difference between the UK and Australia.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/05/15/a-fascinating-map-of-the-worlds-most-and-least-racially-tolerant-countries/

antrobus

And as far as 'misogyny' is concerned, the World Economic Forum produces a Global Gender Gap Index. Australia is ranked at 24, two places ahead of the UK.

http://reports.weforum.org/global-gender-gap-report-2014/wp-content/blogs.dir/60/mp/files/pages/files/gggr-2014-table-3.pdf

So you're probably wrong about that as well.:)

Generali

ruggedtoast wrote: »

Currently a lot of my Facebook aussie friends are freaking out about how right wing and xenophobic Australia is becoming.

Maybe you should fill out an application yourself. Sounds right up your street.

If you look back at Australian history and, given that we had the memorial speeches for Gough Whitlam today, now is as good a time as any.

Australia is making genuine steps towards a settlement with the First Australians, migration policy has moved on hugely from the White Australia policy which was effectively alive and well in my lifetime.

The boat people policies are difficult but it is a difficult subject to deal with. People traffickers are criminals that don't seem bothered about what happens to the people that are trafficked. If there's a law that says if traffickers behave in a despicable way towards the trafficked then the criminals will happily put the lives of the boat people at risk, experience teaches us that.

The only way to stop the criminals is to stop the profit. There's no money to be made taking people to Nairu or Cambodia. If that's the ultimate destination then only refugees make the journey, not modern day slaves who have sold themselves.

As for CLAPTON? We don't want him/her.

Generali

antrobus wrote: »

If you mean 'Australia' then you are probably wrong.

The World Values Survey seeks to measure the extent of racism across the world. Its data shows that the United Kingdom and its former colonies (the United States, Canada, Australia and New Zealand) are among the least racist in the world. They did not find, in particular, that there was much difference between the UK and Australia.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/05/15/a-fascinating-map-of-the-worlds-most-and-least-racially-tolerant-countries/

antrobus wrote: »

And as far as 'misogyny' is concerned, the World Economic Forum produces a Global Gender Gap Index. Australia is ranked at 24, two places ahead of the UK.

http://reports.weforum.org/global-gender-gap-report-2014/wp-content/blogs.dir/60/mp/files/pages/files/gggr-2014-table-3.pdf

So you're probably wrong about that as well.:)

That's the funny thing about extreme nationalists (mustn't say racists as it upsets the not-moderators) is that they tend to be wrong quite a lot, only picking data points that support their narrow, extremist viewpoint.

CLAPTON

Generali wrote: »

So now we're on to the ad hominem attacks. Grub.

Generali wrote:

The rest of your answer is the usual straw man crap that I hoped you'd refrain from but, as always when dealing with racists nationalists they are unable to remain rational and resort to abuse because there is no rational argument for racism nationalism.

Why do you hate foreigners?

one couldn't make it up really.

Bantex_2

I do find it rather odd when an Australian (European decent) claims that it is not a racist country when you look at the state of the aborignal population and how they have been and still are treated.

CLAPTON

Generali wrote: »

If you look back at Australian history and, given that we had the memorial speeches for Gough Whitlam today, now is as good a time as any.

Australia is making genuine steps towards a settlement with the First Australians, migration policy has moved on hugely from the White Australia policy which was effectively alive and well in my lifetime.

The boat people policies are difficult but it is a difficult subject to deal with. People traffickers are criminals that don't seem bothered about what happens to the people that are trafficked. If there's a law that says if traffickers behave in a despicable way towards the trafficked then the criminals will happily put the lives of the boat people at risk, experience teaches us that.

The only way to stop the criminals is to stop the profit. There's no money to be made taking people to Nairu or Cambodia. If that's the ultimate destination then only refugees make the journey, not modern day slaves who have sold themselves.

As for CLAPTON? We don't want him/her.

Some would struggle to see the substantive difference between Aus policy on illegal immigrants and boat people and those of the UK far racist right.

Linton

CLAPTON wrote: »

... you support obeying EU rules whatever they are or indeed will be.

EU rules are the detailed regulations resulting from the implementation of the policies agreed by the elected authorities of the member states. They are of course open to negotiation between those elected authorities.

Your approach seem fixated in seeing the world in terms of "us" and "them". "them" is everyone who isnt "us". "them" apparently have a mission in life to do "us" down. So lets look at who "us" may be.

My "us" could include retired people living in semi rural areas. From that point of view a Frenchman living near Lyons may be more "us" than a fisherman living in the outer Hebrides or a London banker working in the City. Many Scots and possibly some Welsh or Cornish people may not include you as part of "us". Many Northern Irish people I guess may consider "us" to include Dubliners but not include people living in SE England.

My "us" includes people with an egalitarian, liberal outlook. At the moment I am ruled by "them", or at least from my point of view "them" have an undesirable influence.

Who is your "us"?

Perhaps we need to move towards "us" being far more inclusive. Then the question of the EU, the UK, Scotland, local authorities etc becomes one of moving towards a system which optimises the balance between the efficiencies of commonality with the need for people to have control over their immediate lives. I suspect that the UK as an entity is too big to effectively provide the local control and too small to provide the full efficiency of commonality. The USA is at the moment a viable size, the EU is a viable size, the UK isnt.