Stay or go? EU poll - Oh the irony.

Generali

And for the hard of thinking who assume that there is a magic bullet where the UK can opt out of the EU, remain in the single market and not have to contribute financially by joining EFTA:

http://www.efta.int/eea/eu-programmes/application-finances/eea-efta-budget

There are two kinds of EU expenditure that the EEA EFTA States contribute to: operational and administrative. The EU operational expenditure is the total EU programme budget less the administrative expenditure. EEA EFTA contributions to the operational costs of the EU programmes are calculated according to Article 82.1 of the EEA Agreement. A proportionality factor based on the relative size of the gross domestic product (GDP) figures of the EEA EFTA States, compared to the total GDP of the EEA, is calculated every year on the basis of the latest available statistical data. The annual EEA EFTA financial contribution to operational costs is reached by multiplying the proportionality factor with the amount of the relevant EU budget line. In 2014, the proportionality factor is 3.03%. The contribution to the EU operational costs represents the major part of the EEA EFTA budget.

Joining EFTA is the worst of all worlds really: you pay into the EU budget, have to acquiesce to the EU's rules and you get no part in the decision making process as to how the money is spent or the rules are made.

ruggedtoast

I remember the late great Tony Benn talking about Britain's attitude to international organisations.

First we say they'll never happen and then they happen. Then we say they'll never work and then they work. Then we say we'll never join and then we join, at a vastly diminished position of influence.

We already get a rebate and have been let off the euro. What else does Britain want? If we'd been involved since the outset then we could have shaped the union rather than just spent the last decade whining about nonsense like bent bananas.

ruggedtoast

Graham_Devon wrote: »

If I were you Hamish, I'd be wanting a referendum sooner than later.

Afterall, a referendum today would likely see the majority vote to stay in the EU. I would guess a 60 / 40 split.

Give it another 5 years and that could well have changed radically. Afterall, the EU has huge problems which they are plastering over at the moment. This extra payment has turned pro-EU people into people who would now vote to leave (see discussion time for evidence). It's not the physical amount of money that's the issue....it's the calculations.

A few more blunders like this....well, the support could evaporate further.

We've simply got to have a referendum. Enough people want it to cause political issues in the UK. We've already had the first UKIP MP....something which eurosceptics were told would never happen. How far does it have to go before people simply get a say?

Give it another 5 years and you could see 10 UKIP MP's in parliament if growing voices are not listened to.

Is denying people a referendum really worth damaging british politics for? The calls are not going to go away....they are simply going to grow.

I was watching Have I Got News For You last night....and pretty much the first half of the show was setup to mock UKIP. Thing is, reading an article this morning, that only CREATED further UKIP support as people saw what was going on by the "elite". It's contagious....and constantly kicking people who have a belief is UKIP's most powerful line of support. It's just the people doing the kicking appear completely unable to realise it.

An expert on maximising the potential of a £5 note against a dizzying array of meal deal options you may be Graham, but a master of the finely honed and carefully balanced political and economic treaties of the EU you are not!

You are displaying all the certainty and as little of the credibility as a Shakethedisease or a Zagubov, stridently predicting Scottish nationalism.

What they, and you, fail to realise is that whilst blokes may vote for nasty separatist agendas in elections they will not vote for them in referendums!

You still have time to knuckle down young Graham and make something of your life. See the world. Don't throw it all away with a political party designed for retired colonels and daily mail readers.

Graham_Devon

ruggedtoast wrote: »

You are displaying all the certainty and as little of the credibility as a Shakethedisease or a Zagubov, stridently predicting Scottish nationalism.

That's great....

What specific influence do we have in the EU? (Fourth time).

Insults are not getting the question answered.

StevieJ

Graham_Devon wrote: »

What specific influence do we have? (third time!)

..

It appears thar currently we have quite a lot of influence in the EU but for one reason or another it is likely due to fall away.

While EU civil servants and Commissioners are not supposed to consider the national interests of their country, the relevant academic research1 acknowledges the importance of nationality in international organisations and the Commission implicitly accepts this by its requirement in the staff regulations for “geographical balance”.
Despite low levels of British staff compared to other EU members states, British influence in the European Commission remains high at present. This is due to the strong cohort of British officials among senior managers. Of the 128 senior management and top cabinet positions, Germany held 20, the UK 13 and France 11 at the end of 2013

https://www.bba.org.uk/news/reports/british-influence-in-the-eu/#.VFJAKclInrM

Masomnia

ruggedtoast wrote: »

We already get a rebate and have been let off the euro. What else does Britain want? If we'd been involved since the outset then we could have shaped the union rather than just spent the last decade whining about nonsense like bent bananas.

We tried to join earlier but it was vetoed by the French.

We'll end up with the Euro sooner or later. As time goes by more and more taxation will go directly to the EU, making the rebate increasingly irrelevant.

ruggedtoast

Masomnia wrote: »

We tried to join earlier but it was vetoed by the French.

We'll end up with the Euro sooner or later. As time goes by more and more taxation will go directly to the EU, making the rebate increasingly irrelevant.

It was vetoed by DeGaulle, who repaid our kindness in offering him asylum and liberating his countrymen from the terrifying German war machine in the traditional French manner of disdain and treachery.

ruggedtoast

Graham_Devon wrote: »

That's great....

What specific influence do we have in the EU? (Fourth time).

Insults are not getting the question answered.

Now just wait a minute Graham. We have a European Commissioner, we have baroness Farquarh wotsername, and we have the full complement of euro MP's.

If you'd stop voting in useless ukip ones you'd have more influence.

Kapische?

CLAPTON

StevieJ wrote: »

It appears thar currently we have quite a lot of influence in the EU but for one reason or another it is likely due to fall away.

https://www.bba.org.uk/news/reports/british-influence-in-the-eu/#.VFJAKclInrM

this seems to show the exact opposite

the population of the EU is about 507 million
of the UK it is about 64 million or about 12.6%
of Germany it is about 80.7 or about 15.9%
of France it is about 60.5 million or 12.9%


so the UK with only 10% of senior managers
Germany with 15.6%
France with 8.5%

It would seem that UK and France are considerably unrepresented.

Wheezy_2

ruggedtoast wrote: »

Consider for one moment that fish will swim freely throughout the entire ocean, and not always in a straight line.

Good point!

http://www.economist.com/blogs/bagehot/2011/01/britain_and_eu

But many of the most valuable fish stocks, such as North Sea herring, swim between British, Dutch, Belgian and French waters. If we stalked out of the EU, good luck persuading some of our ex-partners to exercise restraint when part-time British herring are over their side of the line. Equally, there are trawlers from Belgium, for instance, with historic fishing rights in British waters dating back hundreds of years. So if we pulled out of the CFP, British fish ministers would still have to meet fish ministers from the French, Belgian, Dutch, Danish or Polish fleets each year to haggle over mutual access rights and allowable catches.

As with many things EU, the CFP is a bit of a shambles, but opting out isn't really a viable option for any member state.