How not to join a motorway!

Avoriaz

Joe_Horner wrote: »

Without knowing what the lorry driver's overall view was there's no way to say. But....

Given the speed differential, there's a very good chance that the lorry driver will have had a chance to see the car in his n/s mirror, disappearing into his blind spot. He should also have been aware that the slip lane was closing and that the car would have to go somewhere.

In that case, prudence (as opposed to legal requirement) says to re-aquire sight of the car asap, certainly before the lane ends, even if that means easing up slightly. Just assuming the car will cross the chevorns when you can't see it anymore is taking an unneccessary gamble.

Note: before anyone says "he might not have been visible at all", that's based on the assumption that the car could be seen when it was further back. It probably could be because it was significantly faster and lorries do have much better mirrors than cars. Intentionally checking that side as you pass a slip road should be automatic, in case there's a loon joining. I suspect the lorry driver didn't.

If I had been that lorry driver, I would have assumed that the car had dropped back and would pull out behind me so easing up would be the last thing I would have done.

If you cannot see a vehicle, you should take no action as any action is more likely to make matters worse, especially if you are driving a large lorry. It is up to the car driver to negotiate his way safely onto the motorway.

My only criticism of the lorry driver is that perhaps he was a little too close to the lorry in front but that was not the cause of this collision.

The collision was caused by appallingly stupid driving on the part of the car driver.

Joe_Horner

tbourner wrote: »

That's just nonsense. If you were driving down a main road with a car approaching the junction from a side road, you wouldn't take any action, you would assume the driver will stop and give way or otherwise pull onto the main road without causing a problem - you would only "deal" with the situation in the event of the driver doing something stupid like pulling out in front of you and stopping.

Err, that's just nonsense.

I woould always assume the car approaching on the side road is going to do something stupid until I can see clearly that he's not. Even if I don't react physically (which I may or may not do depending on the circumstances), mentally I'm already reacting by planning how to avoid him if he does pull out as soon as I've seen him. I'll be watching for changes in his speed, indications of braking (or not), his steering inputs and so on - basically any clue to say he hasn't noticed me. If I'm not certain that he has, and that he's reacting safely, then I'll react physically (even giving up my right of way if needed!!!).

It's called anticipation and why I've never had an accident (not even an "it wasn't my fault" one!) in xx years of over-legal-speed driving on the road. I have, however, successfully avoided countless accidents that other people have tried to cause by being idiots, and can count on one had the times I've had to "slam on the anchors" or "swerve into another lane" to do that.

Frankly, I'd rather not be in the back of an ambulance or looking at my written off car and wondering how I'm getting to work tomorow regardless of who's "fault" it is.

Incidentally, I'm not a Driving God - I just take avoiding the inevitable cost, inconvenience and possible pain of hitting things, or having them hit me, seriously.

tbourner

Joe_Horner wrote: »

I woould always assume the car approaching on the side road is going to do something stupid until I can see clearly that he's not. Even if I don't react physically

But that's not what you're talking about, you're saying the trucker should have taken some action when the driver was simply approaching on the slip road. We're all assuming that the car went into his blind spot at some point and you were saying trucker should have eased off to make room - or maybe assumed the driver was lifting off and the trucker should have sped up? I'm not actually sure what you would have expected trucker to do at the point the car disappeared from view.
I would have expected the trucker to do exactly what he did.

Captaincodpiece

tbourner wrote: »

But that's not what you're talking about, you're saying the trucker should have taken some action when the driver was simply approaching on the slip road. We're all assuming that the car went into his blind spot at some point and you were saying trucker should have eased off to make room - or maybe assumed the driver was lifting off and the trucker should have sped up? I'm not actually sure what you would have expected trucker to do at the point the car disappeared from view.
I would have expected the trucker to do exactly what he did.

The trucker did nothing to avoid it and that is exactly what joe is talking about.

Vehicle are clearly seen joining from the slip. No adjustment in speed by truck just carried on. He, if he saw the civic allowed it go drive into his blind spot.

Maybe he could have moved into lane 2 prior to the slip who know?

It's not the truck drivers fault but it is possible he could have prevented this.

Generali

100% the car driver's fault.

The lorry driver did exactly the right thing: drove at a steady speed in an entirely predictable way. The car is entering from a slip road and so needs to find a gap. The car driver went for a gap and missed it.

Joe_Horner

tbourner wrote: »

But that's not what you're talking about, you're saying the trucker should have taken some action when the driver was simply approaching on the slip road. We're all assuming that the car went into his blind spot at some point and you were saying trucker should have eased off to make room - or maybe assumed the driver was lifting off and the trucker should have sped up? I'm not actually sure what you would have expected trucker to do at the point the car disappeared from view.
I would have expected the trucker to do exactly what he did.

Car comes down the slip road in your mirror, closing fast and showing no sign of slowing, as the slip road ahead is disappearing. He goes into your blind spot, still not slowing.

You have a (too small - less than a second) gap in front of you and you can be pretty sure from the way he's approached that he's going to aim for it. So you lift off the throttle slighty - no need to brake / jack knife / swerve onto the other carriageway. Just ease up to open the gap for him.

Better would be to have a proper gap in the first place, of course, but it seems everyone out there is too stupid / unimaginative to ever consider that nowadays no matter how often it's suggested!

Now, none of that takes any responsibility away from the car for what happened, but it's perfectly safe, perfectly valid and perfectly reasonable ways that the lorry driver might have prevented what the other driver caused.

If you can reasonably prevent an accident by doing something that you don't legally have to and you fail to do so then, if your driving had been a little bit ore switched on, there would have been no accident. Morally that puts some responsibility on you, even if it doesn't legally.

When things go really bad most people suddenly "get" that - which is why non-fault drivers in fatal accidents often find themselves thinking "if only..." My point is simply that the right time to think "if only..." is before it happens, not afterward. If more people did that there'd be a LOT less accidents!

Joe_Horner

Generali wrote: »

100% the car driver's fault.

The lorry driver did exactly the right thing: drove at a steady speed in an entirely predictable way. The car is entering from a slip road and so needs to find a gap. The car driver went for a gap and missed it.

On that basis, if I'm driving along, in a perfectly predictable way, on the right side of the road and within the speed limit, if someone appears driving towards me on my side of the road - or, as more often happens, attempts an overtake towards me where there isn't enough room - I should take no action and continue at a steady speed in a predictable way.

Must remember not to slow down next time that happens :rotfl:

Generali

Joe_Horner wrote: »

On that basis, if I'm driving along, in a perfectly predictable way, on the right side of the road and within the speed limit, if someone appears driving towards me on my side of the road - or, as more often happens, attempts an overtake towards me where there isn't enough room - I should take no action and continue at a steady speed in a predictable way.

Must remember not to slow down next time that happens :rotfl:

The Highway Code tells you to maintain your speed if someone overtakes you in that situation. They should brake and pull in behind you.

Half the problem in situations is when drivers think they know best and use their judgement/drive unpredictability.

NeededToChooseAUsername

Generali wrote: »

The Highway Code tells you to maintain your speed if someone overtakes you in that situation. They should brake and pull in behind you.

Half the problem in situations is when drivers think they know best and use their judgement/drive unpredictability.

And what if they don't, as in this situation?

Joe_Horner

NeededToChooseAUsername wrote: »

And what if they don't, as in this situation?

Apparently you maintain your speed, as per the HC, into a multi car pile-up in the smug knowledge that it wasn't your fault :beer: