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RHI & MCS certification

13

Comments

  • If you ring spec flue they will be able to tell you more, they are the uk distributors of these boilers.

    Essentially all biomass boilers have a risk of back firing, this means they are fitted with a flue regulator (very basically a flap) on the flue.

    So when and if it backfires, the flap will be pushed open and the energy dispersed here, if this hasn't been fitted, it is going to break the weakest point on the boiler. The glass.

    There have only been 4 recorded cases, and over 16000 have been sold.

    The 4 that have failed have not been fitted by mcs approved installers or been approved by the manufacturer or distributers. They have just been bought off eBay or online and fitted by joe blogs plumber who has not met building regs when fitting it.

    I can't see that it will take long for them to get there certification back.

    The reason they lost it, is because the manufactures did not reply to any correspondence with mcs regarding the issue probably because it is nothing to do with the boilers but the fitting so they would not know what the problem was with their product.
    "talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish" - Euripides
  • If you ring spec flue they will be able to tell you more, they are the uk distributors of these boilers.

    Essentially all biomass boilers have a risk of back firing, this means they are fitted with a flue regulator (very basically a flap) on the flue.

    So when and if it backfires, the flap will be pushed open and the energy dispersed here, if this hasn't been fitted, it is going to break the weakest point on the boiler. The glass.

    There have only been 4 recorded cases, and over 16000 have been sold.

    The 4 that have failed have not been fitted by mcs approved installers or been approved by the manufacturer or distributers. They have just been bought off eBay or online and fitted by joe blogs plumber who has not met building regs when fitting it.

    I can't see that it will take long for them to get there certification back.

    The reason they lost it, is because the manufactures did not reply to any correspondence with mcs regarding the issue probably because it is nothing to do with the boilers but the fitting so they would not know what the problem was with their product.
    You seem to know a lot about the terms of the suspension. So can you answer the following questions.

    Why are MCS involved if the boilers concerned weren't fitted by MCS installers?

    Have MCZ really sold 16000 of these boilers in the UK or are you including other markets?

    Why wouldn't a responsible manufacturer or importer respond and support MCS with their investigations into incidents involving their products? (I know MCS and BRE are pains but to ignore them is foolhardy as they can cut off your sales by suspending you and your products.)
  • Because they are a mcs approved product...

    Why does it matter where they are sold, but this is in total for this The figures for one boiler model.

    It's an Italian company, the UK is a tiny proportion of their market they probably didn't know who mcs was.
    "talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish" - Euripides
  • Robwiz
    Robwiz Posts: 364 Forumite
    This speculation doesn't add up. Why would someone buy an MCS approved boiler and have it installed by an unapproved installer, so doing themselves out of RHI payments? There are plenty of cheaper non-MCS register products available.

    As the saying goes, no smoke without fire.
  • From what I've seen, it doesn't mention when the boilers were installed. Can some of the legacy installations have been installed back when MCS registration wasn't being applied and thus these 4 could be older ones before flue regulators etc?
  • Domestic RHI is only been around since April this year, so before then there was no real financial incentive to use a MCS installer other than the RHPPs which were often less than the additional cost of using a MCS tradesman who knew what they were doing. And people thought they were saving money by using joe blogs plumber
    "talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish" - Euripides
  • RickMoney
    RickMoney Posts: 158 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 100 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    ok, going back to the original installation questions - with regards to the flue, I have an existing chimney that I was going to put a flexible flue liner down myself. I got told that if I did this then the MCS installer wouldn't be able to sign the boiler off for MCS?

    What happens if they are installing in a chimney that already has a liner in - I thought they would just do a smoke pellet test to check for leaks etc and that would be sufficient?

    I almost think of it as a way to force me to get the flex flue from them...
  • RickMoney wrote: »
    ok, going back to the original installation questions - with regards to the flue, I have an existing chimney that I was going to put a flexible flue liner down myself. I got told that if I did this then the MCS installer wouldn't be able to sign the boiler off for MCS?

    What happens if they are installing in a chimney that already has a liner in - I thought they would just do a smoke pellet test to check for leaks etc and that would be sufficient?

    I almost think of it as a way to force me to get the flex flue from them...
    To claim RHI the whole lot needs to be done by an MCS registered installer. The logic for this is a poor installation as well as being a safety issue can reduce efficiency.

    If you put the liner down the chimney yourself it is notifible work so you will need to get the building inspector out to sign it off.

    A badly installed flue is a killer so I very much doubt you'll find any installer who is happy to fit a boiler to a flue that they've not installed.
  • I'll speak with the installer and see if they will just install materials supplied by me then.

    The other problem then is that I do plan to have a normal woodburning stove in another room in the future which requires a twin wall flue (No chimney in that room). With the renovations, we plan to install it through the roof while it's a mess. The whole works will need to be signed off by building control at the end so provided he is happy with the works then a stove installer in the future should be content with it when they install the stove??
  • Robwiz
    Robwiz Posts: 364 Forumite
    Domestic RHI is only been around since April this year, so before then there was no real financial incentive to use a MCS installer other than the RHPPs which were often less than the additional cost of using a MCS tradesman who knew what they were doing. And people thought they were saving money by using joe blogs plumber

    That is totally untrue. The Domestic RHI had been announced and MCS approved stoves were being promoted by MCS registered installers at least in spring 2013 with the proviso that they would be eligible for RHI when the details of payments were published and the scheme opened.

    I know because I was looking at installing a biomass boiler at the time and can produce quotations as evidence. This time last year it was possible to claim the RHPP until March 2014, on the understanding that the RHPP would then be deducted from RHI payments.
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