DVLA right or wrong?

Rover_Driver

!!!!!! wrote: »

Public Access has.
See http://audisrs.com/archive/dvla-clamping-on-private-property__o_t__t_19632.html this sheds a different light on it.

That had nothing to do with public access, it concerned clamping an unlicensed vehicle on a private driveway, which was not authorised by Sch. 2A, Vehicles Excise & Registration Act 1994.

jimjames

perjubs wrote: »

Thanks for a more constructive answer than the other folks.

But my question remains can I deny him access? I know if HMR Customs want to come on I HAVE to let them on, there is no legal way around it, I learned this when I was training however does the same apply to the DVLA? I can't seem to find anything either way about it.

I certainly wouldn't let them on without a warrant.

Aretnap

!!!!!! wrote: »

Public Access has.
See http://audisrs.com/archive/dvla-clamping-on-private-property__o_t__t_19632.html this sheds a different light on it.

You're confusing two different issues there.

If the vehicle is untaxed and you SORN it you can keep it anywhere except a road maintained at public expense. You can perfectly legally keep it in a place like the OP describes.

However it's untaxed and you don't SORN it the DVLA can seize it - and they can take it from anywhere except from the curtilage of a dwelling (eg your own private driveway at home). (Finance Act 2008)

The thread you link to is about the latter situation - it's still not a question of public access.

I wonder if the problem is actually that the OP's friend hasn't SORNed the vehicle correctly, or whether he's relying on the exemption for a motor trader keeping vehicles on business premises, and the question is about what qualifies as business premises. With second hand accounts there's always the potential for confusion over exactly what the issue is.

TrickyWicky

Aretnap wrote: »

You're sort of correct as far as insurance (required in any place to which the public have access) and MOT (required on any road to which the public have access) go, but not about tax. Tax has nothing to do with either the Road Traffic Act or the Highways Act - it comes under the Vehicle Excise and Registration Act, for the purposes of which a public road is defined as "in England and Wales and Northern Ireland... a road which is repairable at the public expense".

It's quite legal to keep a SORNed, untaxed vehicle in a place with public access, so long as it's not maintained at public expense, and so long as any relevant boxes relating to insurance and MOT are ticked.

I wasn't trying to discuss the difference between acts, merely pointing out that a public place is covered as a highway and a non public place is not.

That was the point i was trying to make.

Rover_Driver

TrickyWicky wrote: »

Land that the public has an implied right of access to (eg a supermarket car park) is legally covered as part of a public highway and thus has to be taxed, insured and MOT'd.

A motor vehicle can be declared SORN in place of a licence even where the public have access, or a public highway, as long as it is not a public road.

Richard53

As a security guard, your role is as the agent of the site owner. You enforce policies that the site owner wishes to have enforced. I would suggest you ask the owner what he wants you to do about DVLA requests for access, and then do what he/she says. If the DVLA guy questions it, refer him back to the site owner. Using your own discretion is above your pay grade.


As far as I know, the only people who can demand to be admitted are police with a warrant, HMRC, and HSE inspectors investigating an incident. With one of these, I would be on the phone to my employer. Otherwise, give them contact details and tell them to come back when they have sorted out the access with the person concerned.

DUTR

Richard53 wrote: »

As a security guard, your role is as the agent of the site owner. You enforce policies that the site owner wishes to have enforced. I would suggest you ask the owner what he wants you to do about DVLA requests for access, and then do what he/she says. If the DVLA guy questions it, refer him back to the site owner. Using your own discretion is above your pay grade.


As far as I know, the only people who can demand to be admitted are police with a warrant, HMRC, and HSE inspectors investigating an incident. With one of these, I would be on the phone to my employer. Otherwise, give them contact details and tell them to come back when they have sorted out the access with the person concerned.

Wouldn't the DVLA come under Revenue and Customs?
Security Guard, maybe the generic term for concierge, and simply taking action and reporting any incidents to their client and or emergency services as appropriate.
I agree the OP should check his job description, he is between a rock and hard place.

TrickyWicky

Rover_Driver wrote: »

A motor vehicle can be declared SORN in place of a licence even where the public have access, or a public highway, as long as it is not a public road.

No you are wrong.

The DVLA frequently inspect supermarket car parks - a public place which is classed as part of the highway.

Rover_Driver

TrickyWicky wrote: »

No you are wrong.

The DVLA frequently inspect supermarket car parks - a public place which is classed as part of the highway.

Vehicle licensing has nothing to do with being a public place or part of the highway, a registered motor vehicle is required to be licensed wherever it is, which includes supermarket car parks. However a SORN declaration can be made in place of a licence if the vehicle is not used or kept on a public road.


The DVLA contractors can, and do, clamp vehicles that are not licensed or declared SORN, on any land - including supermarket car parks - except:
(a)any place which is within the curtilage of, or in the vicinity of, a dwelling-house, mobile home or houseboat and which is normally enjoyed with it, or
(b)any place which is within the curtilage of, or in the vicinity of, a building consisting entirely (apart from common parts) of two or more dwellings and which is normally enjoyed only by the occupiers of one or more of those dwellings.

Aretnap

TrickyWicky wrote: »

I wasn't trying to discuss the difference between acts, merely pointing out that a public place is covered as a highway and a non public place is not.

That was the point i was trying to make.

If you're going to opine on whether VED is required in a certain place, you really do need to get the right Act.

You're also confusing public places with highways. A highway is a route (be it a path, track or road) over which the general public have a right to pass. A supermarket car park might well be a public place for the purposes of the Road Traffic Act, as it's used by the general public, but it's not a highway by any stretch of the imagination, partly because it's not a route, and partly because the public have no actual right to be there - they're only there with the consent of the landowner, who can withdraw that consent any time he likes. And neither term is relevant to the question of where you can keep an untaxed vehicle.