some help pcn challenge

Dee140157

You must Remember that even though your second appeal failed it is not binding on you to pay.
You will doubtless get a series of debt recovery letters, but ignore them unless you get an LBCC (See newbie thread post 4).

But as I said before a complaint must go into DVLA and ICO as there was no reason to apply for keepers details since the driver had appealed. However you do need to confirm the driver did give his/her details.

In the meanwhile it migh be worth raising a complaint with the head of IPC if there is one about the issuing of the NTK. However I have no idea who that is!

eddy1

many thanks dee


the driver did give their details as we received a letter from them asking for the ticket


as I said they forgot, they then issued ntk
are you saying they should have pursued the original driver who lodged the first appeal, and not sought to get rk details, and by doing this they have no grounds to request such information, hence complaint to dvla and ico. will look to follow all of this advice


would it be prudent to write to the operator first and copy in dvla, ico and ipc


or do the opposite write to dvla, ico and ipc and copy in operator
or not notify operator at all


regards


eddy1

Dee140157

I would write to the DVLA, ICO and as another member often suggests Trading Standards.

I would then separately write to IPC telling them that you have reported them to the above for obtaining the keeper's details when the drivers details have been disclosed to them and that they should have continued to pursue driver. they should therefore cancel the PCN forthwith and the keeper denies any debt to them.

eddy1

many thanks for your support Dee
will write to all suggested asap


will keep forum informed of outcome


just wish I had found this site earlier
thanks again
eddy1

Dee140157

Wait 24 hours before you do anything as it is a Bank Holiday Monday and several of the regulars who I might have expected to comment are not about today, so they may have something more to add to my comments tonight or tomorrow.

eddy1

will do dee


many thanks


eddy1

Coupon-mad

eddy1 wrote: »

the driver did give their details as we received a letter from them asking for the ticket... as I said they forgot, they then issued ntk

are you saying they should have pursued the original driver who lodged the first appeal, and not sought to get rk details, and by doing this they have no grounds to request such information, hence complaint to dvla and ico. will look to follow all of this advice

Yes totally agree, IF that driver gave a postal address. DID THEY? You must ask the driver for a copy of exactly what they sent, for your evidence/complaints.

would it be prudent to write to the operator first and copy in dvla, ico and ipc

or do the opposite write to dvla, ico and ipc and copy in operator
or not notify operator at all

I would do exactly what Dee suggested here:

Dee140157 wrote: »

I would write to the DVLA, ICO and as another member often suggests Trading Standards.

I would then separately write to IPC telling them that you have reported them to the above for obtaining the keeper's details when the drivers details have been disclosed to them and that they should have continued to pursue driver. they should therefore cancel the PCN forthwith and the keeper denies any debt to them.

Here is a similar, new SIP case from pepipoo where the OP lost at IAS and is now ignoring anything except a Letter before Claim or real court papers:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=92849&st=0 (if this is also your case then I am 'SchoolRunMum' who replied to you there!)

At least with you there is no case to answer since you can show proof (get proof!) that the driver appealed and gave their address as well. You should be able to get this cancelled by a strong complaint or two but if not then you can easily defend it if it goes to a small claim. SIP dropped all their cases last year where we helped with defences, there were only a handful as they are not prolific, but we got all of them dropped as SIP were hopeless!

Oh, and go and get photos of the signs, sharpish - signage is important in court defences. Don't let SIP change the signs in the meantime - get your evidence NOW!

eddy1

hi coupon mad
thanks for the advice, yes you are perceptive, just trying to get opinion on disclosure as was not sure because keeper panicked and responded as if they were driving
yes they did give their address with the first appeal as we have a letter from them asking for the ticket
however have not got letter they sent for evidence, don't think so anyway


will write to all of those suggested, as well as the IPC
should then inform the PPC that I have reported them to those highlighted, and they should cancel the PCN


will draft letters and post for comment if ok


many thanks for your advice (again)


eddy1

eddy1

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Yes totally agree, IF that driver gave a postal address. DID THEY? You must ask the driver for a copy of exactly what they sent, for your evidence/complaints.

I would do exactly what Dee suggested here:



Here is a similar, new SIP case from pepipoo where the OP lost at IAS and is now ignoring anything except a Letter before Claim or real court papers:

(if this is also your case then I am 'SchoolRunMum' who replied to you there!)

At least with you there is no case to answer since you can show proof (get proof!) that the driver appealed and gave their address as well. You should be able to get this cancelled by a strong complaint or two but if not then you can easily defend it if it goes to a small claim. SIP dropped all their cases last year where we helped with defences, there were only a handful as they are not prolific, but we got all of them dropped as SIP were hopeless!

Oh, and go and get photos of the signs, sharpish - signage is important in court defences. Don't let SIP change the signs in the meantime - get your evidence NOW!

dear coupon mad please see copy of letter to IPC, any suggestions do you think?
regards
eddy1


Dear IPC


I wish to make a formal complaint about xxxxxxxxx whom I understand is a member of the IPC.


The basis of my complaint lies in the conduct of xxxxxxxxxx henceforth known as xxxx, specifically in relation to their request for keeper details regarding a PCN (number xxxxxxxx) being issued.


This PCN was issued on xxxxxxxx An appeal was lodged by the driver, who incidentally purchased a ticket for the stated period. A request for a photocopy of the ticket was made by xxxxx the parking operator in writing (see attached document) dated xxxxxxx


A “Notice To Keeper” (NTK) dated xxxxxxxxxx was delivered to the registered keeper, indicating the PCN details as previously identified.The NTK further states that xxxxxx “do not know the drivers details” Therefore the reason for this notice.


It is clear from the documentation I have attached that xxxxxxx were in correspondence with the driver, and therefore knew who the driver was, and as a consequence had no reasonable cause to request the registered keeper details.


I therefore believe that my personal information was requested without reasonable cause and that it has been used inappropriately to pursue a charge not liable to me. I do believe that xxxxx has breached your code of conduct and request that you investigate this serious issue as a matter of urgency. This has caused me significant stress and distraction, and I am deeply concerned about the conduct of xxxxx.


I will also be writing to the DVLA regarding this issue as well as the Information Commissioners Office, in addition to Trading Standards regarding this matter.I trust you will be informing xxxxxx, however I will also be writing to them detailing my actions and requesting that this PCN be cancelled.


I look forward to hearing from you in the very near future


Yours




xxxxxxxxx

Coupon-mad

I think I would send that to the DVLA first, on their own, and wait. Email addy in post #6 of the Newbies thread or you can use [EMAIL="foi@dvla.gsi.gov.uk"]foi@dvla.gsi.gov.uk[/EMAIL]

The reason being that the DVLA can then pass it to the IPC who 'must' then investigate which has more clout coming via the DVLA than from you. Also I think that any complaint handled via the DVLA may be open to seeing the emails that were generated as a result - under FOI - since the DVLA is a public body (and the IAS is not).

And because each complaint about PPCs to the DVLA has to be recorded so that way, the IPC can't sweep this under the carpet.