Live in Care versus Care Home

nad1611

You're all so good taking the time to comment. It's such a difficult subject. I suppose what it is, was seeing Dad so relaxed and happy and thinking maybe there's an alternative. I suppose I'd resigned myself to the idea of him going into a home because I thought that was the only option and then seeing the change in him when my brother was away it made me think that maybe the mix of my brother and Dad wasn't good for my Dad or my brother.

I think I'm on a losing battle, I'm the only one who saw my Dad during this period, most of them have convinced themselves a Home is where he belongs and I do feel that's because it's just more convenient. I'm not being silly about it and I feel it would probably only buy him a few more months at home,but at 88 that's a significant amount of time. He hasn't got many more happy times and I guess seeing him so happy this week I felt like there was a lot more of my Dad left under the Dementia than I realised.

To answer some questions, it was envisaged that my brother would carry on with the running of the home, which he had to come back to for a short stay when he was having some problems, 5 years ago!! So it's not his own home it's my Dad's home. I feel that this is Dad's home, his money and his needs. I'd envisage my brother would relinquish care to the carers, he goes out every day now from 12-6pm, except Sundays when one of us comes and brings Dad's to ours for Sunday lunch. Obviously with 24hr care he could continue to do that and more.
We'd be having a live in carer from the Care provider who we have now, so we wouldn't be responsible for employee things like tax etc. Yes they have a few carers rotating, they have a 2 hr break as mentioned provided by us or the Care providers.
Dad's needs are few, physically he is fit and well, in fact before the Dementia he wasn't taking any pills for anything at all. So he's mobile, can be directed to wash and dress with supervision, needs a meal cooking. He does tend like all with Dementia to ask things relentlessly and keep needing to have things explained over and over and he has been known to get very agitated at times when he either feels he's not at home or when he wants to go back home when he's elsewhere, but really just needs a bit of company, he gets taken out in the car sometimes twice a day by the carers which he really seems to enjoy.
Well it will all end in tears no doubt about that whatever happens!

Mojisola

nad1611 wrote: »

I think I'm on a losing battle, I'm the only one who saw my Dad during this period, most of them have convinced themselves a Home is where he belongs and I do feel that's because it's just more convenient.

Things to think about -

Can your Dad afford to pay for ongoing 24/7 care at home?

Where will your brother live if the house has to be sold to pay for a care home?

jetplane

nad1611 wrote: »

You're all so good taking the time to comment. It's such a difficult subject. I suppose what it is, was seeing Dad so relaxed and happy and thinking maybe there's an alternative. I suppose I'd resigned myself to the idea of him going into a home because I thought that was the only option and then seeing the change in him when my brother was away it made me think that maybe the mix of my brother and Dad wasn't good for my Dad or my brother.

I think I'm on a losing battle, I'm the only one who saw my Dad during this period, most of them have convinced themselves a Home is where he belongs and I do feel that's because it's just more convenient. I'm not being silly about it and I feel it would probably only buy him a few more months at home,but at 88 that's a significant amount of time. He hasn't got many more happy times and I guess seeing him so happy this week I felt like there was a lot more of my Dad left under the Dementia than I realised.

To answer some questions, it was envisaged that my brother would carry on with the running of the home, which he had to come back to for a short stay when he was having some problems, 5 years ago!! So it's not his own home it's my Dad's home. I feel that this is Dad's home, his money and his needs. I'd envisage my brother would relinquish care to the carers, he goes out every day now from 12-6pm, except Sundays when one of us comes and brings Dad's to ours for Sunday lunch. Obviously with 24hr care he could continue to do that and more.
We'd be having a live in carer from the Care provider who we have now, so we wouldn't be responsible for employee things like tax etc. Yes they have a few carers rotating, they have a 2 hr break as mentioned provided by us or the Care providers.
Dad's needs are few, physically he is fit and well, in fact before the Dementia he wasn't taking any pills for anything at all. So he's mobile, can be directed to wash and dress with supervision, needs a meal cooking. He does tend like all with Dementia to ask things relentlessly and keep needing to have things explained over and over and he has been known to get very agitated at times when he either feels he's not at home or when he wants to go back home when he's elsewhere, but really just needs a bit of company, he gets taken out in the car sometimes twice a day by the carers which he really seems to enjoy.
Well it will all end in tears no doubt about that whatever happens!

Forgive me as it is often hard to gauge the tone in written text but this comes over as all being about what you want and what you think your dad needs.

The remarks about your brother staying for 5 years, going out in an afternoon and it being your fathers home shows no gratitude to what your brother does. Who would be looking after dad if he hadn't stayed? Believing your father only needs some supervision and a bit of company shows little understanding of living with a dementia sufferer.

You make it sound very easy to have a live in carer from this agency so you must have enquired, costed it and secured funding, did you not compare the costs of a care home at that point? And as it seems only you that feels he will be better at home could you not look after him / live with him instead of your brother?

CH27

nad1611 wrote: »

You're all so good taking the time to comment. It's such a difficult subject. I suppose what it is, was seeing Dad so relaxed and happy and thinking maybe there's an alternative. I suppose I'd resigned myself to the idea of him going into a home because I thought that was the only option and then seeing the change in him when my brother was away it made me think that maybe the mix of my brother and Dad wasn't good for my Dad or my brother.

I think I'm on a losing battle, I'm the only one who saw my Dad during this period, most of them have convinced themselves a Home is where he belongs and I do feel that's because it's just more convenient. I'm not being silly about it and I feel it would probably only buy him a few more months at home,but at 88 that's a significant amount of time. He hasn't got many more happy times and I guess seeing him so happy this week I felt like there was a lot more of my Dad left under the Dementia than I realised.

To answer some questions, it was envisaged that my brother would carry on with the running of the home, which he had to come back to for a short stay when he was having some problems, 5 years ago!! So it's not his own home it's my Dad's home. I feel that this is Dad's home, his money and his needs. I'd envisage my brother would relinquish care to the carers, he goes out every day now from 12-6pm, except Sundays when one of us comes and brings Dad's to ours for Sunday lunch. Obviously with 24hr care he could continue to do that and more.
We'd be having a live in carer from the Care provider who we have now, so we wouldn't be responsible for employee things like tax etc. Yes they have a few carers rotating, they have a 2 hr break as mentioned provided by us or the Care providers.
Dad's needs are few, physically he is fit and well, in fact before the Dementia he wasn't taking any pills for anything at all. So he's mobile, can be directed to wash and dress with supervision, needs a meal cooking. He does tend like all with Dementia to ask things relentlessly and keep needing to have things explained over and over and he has been known to get very agitated at times when he either feels he's not at home or when he wants to go back home when he's elsewhere, but really just needs a bit of company, he gets taken out in the car sometimes twice a day by the carers which he really seems to enjoy.
Well it will all end in tears no doubt about that whatever happens!

Ouch!
Have you any idea just how hard it is to have 24hr responsibility for someone? Even what you have described is far from simple.
You've only seen little snapshots when you visit.

nad1611

jetplane wrote: »

Forgive me as it is often hard to gauge the tone in written text but this comes over as all being about what you want and what you think your dad needs.

The remarks about your brother staying for 5 years, going out in an afternoon and it being your fathers home shows no gratitude to what your brother does. Who would be looking after dad if he hadn't stayed? Believing your father only needs some supervision and a bit of company shows little understanding of living with a dementia sufferer.

You make it sound very easy to have a live in carer from this agency so you must have enquired, costed it and secured funding, did you not compare the costs of a care home at that point? And as it seems only you that feels he will be better at home could you not look after him / live with him instead of your brother?

I'll attempt to answer calmly as you say it's difficult to gauge tone but you have not gauged my tone correctly, but you have made a lot of assumptions. I haven't gone into in depth to what Dad needs because it would take too long. I'm as aware as my brother of what Dad's needs are as I am very involved in Dad's care. I am the first port of call for everything (wouldn't have it nay other way) First off we were sent all the costings of all their care packages,when we originally took out a care package with the Care Provider so I haven't done anything to research it. I haven't secured funding either and wouldn't need to as Dad would be a self funder, so no I haven't compared costs because I haven't done any costings apart from what happened to be in the literature.
Next until my brother came to Mum and Dad's house my Mum was alive, she had dementia and Dad was in the early stages of it. I and my husband had long chats with them about coming to live with us. I looked after both my Mum's and Dad's needs over a three year period, sorted the financials took them to appts, did their shopping, sat with them every day making sure they were ok,anything they needed sorting in the house I did, whilst suffering from my own ill health and a daughter with bipolar, so I do think I have a slightly better understanding of the requirements, than it may have first appeared, I'm not at all ungrateful for what my brother's done quite the opposite I was actually getting to the point where I was struggling, when he came to live there. Prior to his coming Dad and I spoke about having an extension built on the side of my house so they could still have their own place but I'd be closer if they needed me. Dad was convinced he'd die first and was very worried about Mum being alone so I said we'd have her so he didn't need to worry.
My brother came home in a bit of a depressed state, as he needed somewhere to live, Mum and Dad weren't just going to abandon him to his fate and all talk of them coming to me stopped. I was also there for him. When Mum and Dad started getting worse we shared the load, we worked very well together and it was a relief for me to have help too. It was when Mum died last year and my own health got worse (after we nursed Mum at home) and my daughter's unfortunately, that the burden came to sit more squarely on his shoulders. I have never abandoned him to it and have always been as helpful physically and psychologically as I could. I haven't mentioned all this because I didn't want to sound like some kind of martyr cos I'm not, but I think it's a little more than a snapshot. Oh and I also stay overnight regualrly. I have a very simple attitude to anything where my Mum and Dad are concerned, I would do anything for them to be happy just as they did once for me.

The question of where would my brother go if my Dad goes into a home has always been there. He has been told by all of us that he should have time to get himself together and find somewhere to live, so there's no worry about him being out on the street, well as long as Dad's money lasts, but as said it was always an unquestioned problem. It has obviously suited everyone whilst my brother's been there, it has bought Dad another year at home anyway. But to be fair to Mum and Dad it has also suited my brother to be at home, who has lived there for nothing all this time, which was their decision which I respect.

So I suppose at most I feel annoyed I didn't follow through on having them here, but I'm sad that even looking at this a an option doesn't seem to be one. In fact since writing this I've had an email from my sister saying she's going to look at Nursing Homes this week. No mention about my alternative.

So if I come over as sanctimonious or not having a clue about what it's like to be a carer it's far from the truth, all I want is to at least consider is this really what's best for Dad or is it best for us. I know both things may be valid, but it's amazing how proactive some members of the family are when it comes to Dad going in a home, and how inactive they were when I needed help years ago.

Brighton_belle

jetplane wrote: »

Forgive me as it is often hard to gauge the tone in written text but this comes over as all being about what you want and what you think your dad needs.

Gosh, that just goes to show how people can read things differently, I though the OP came across as very compassionate towards their dad's needs. And of course they have there own opinion on what might be best for dad: we all would have are own opinion wouldn't we in this situ?
The brother has done a great job so far and that needs to be acknowledged, but he didn't give up his life to look after his father, he came back to live with dad at 83 to rescue his own life by the sound of it, so the brother need to be looking to live independently somewhere else while the siblings decide equally of the best way to meet dad's needs.
Clearly it is now too much for him, but maybe he isn't as well placed as a regular carer in dad's own home would be to give dad what he needs at this stage, even if it is just for a few months. I can't see the harm in setting up home carers for a few months and seeing how it goes, giving every one time to research local home for the inevitable next step?


It's a very difficult time OP, as those of us who have been through it can tell you: it is never easy to see your parent deteriorate and then try and find the best solution.

Mojisola

nad1611 wrote: »

I'm as aware as my brother of what Dad's needs are as I am very involved in Dad's care. I am the first port of call for everything (wouldn't have it nay other way)

It doesn't sound as if Power of Attorney was sorted out while Dad was competent? That would have helped because whoever was named as attorney would be the one to make decisions about his care.

If not, you need to start the process of going to the Court of Protection.
https://www.alzheimers.org.uk/site/scripts/documents_info.php?documentID=2478

Why are you letting the rest of the family make the decision if you are the one who has managed everything up to now? All the family should be involved in the current plans but it might be that your siblings can see that it would be best for you as well as your Dad if he went into full-time care.

Brighton_belle

Mojisola wrote: »

It doesn't sound as if Power of Attorney was sorted out while Dad was competent? That would have helped because whoever was named as attorney would be the one to make decisions about his care.

In our family all of my parent's children have equal P of A, so such significant decisions wouldn't be in the hands of one person.

CH27

nad1611 wrote: »

I'll attempt to answer calmly as you say it's difficult to gauge tone but you have not gauged my tone correctly, but you have made a lot of assumptions. I haven't gone into in depth to what Dad needs because it would take too long. I'm as aware as my brother of what Dad's needs are as I am very involved in Dad's care. I am the first port of call for everything (wouldn't have it nay other way) First off we were sent all the costings of all their care packages,when we originally took out a care package with the Care Provider so I haven't done anything to research it. I haven't secured funding either and wouldn't need to as Dad would be a self funder, so no I haven't compared costs because I haven't done any costings apart from what happened to be in the literature.
Next until my brother came to Mum and Dad's house my Mum was alive, she had dementia and Dad was in the early stages of it. I and my husband had long chats with them about coming to live with us. I looked after both my Mum's and Dad's needs over a three year period, sorted the financials took them to appts, did their shopping, sat with them every day making sure they were ok,anything they needed sorting in the house I did, whilst suffering from my own ill health and a daughter with bipolar, so I do think I have a slightly better understanding of the requirements, than it may have first appeared, I'm not at all ungrateful for what my brother's done quite the opposite I was actually getting to the point where I was struggling, when he came to live there. Prior to his coming Dad and I spoke about having an extension built on the side of my house so they could still have their own place but I'd be closer if they needed me. Dad was convinced he'd die first and was very worried about Mum being alone so I said we'd have her so he didn't need to worry.
My brother came home in a bit of a depressed state, as he needed somewhere to live, Mum and Dad weren't just going to abandon him to his fate and all talk of them coming to me stopped. I was also there for him. When Mum and Dad started getting worse we shared the load, we worked very well together and it was a relief for me to have help too. It was when Mum died last year and my own health got worse (after we nursed Mum at home) and my daughter's unfortunately, that the burden came to sit more squarely on his shoulders. I have never abandoned him to it and have always been as helpful physically and psychologically as I could. I haven't mentioned all this because I didn't want to sound like some kind of martyr cos I'm not, but I think it's a little more than a snapshot. Oh and I also stay overnight regualrly. I have a very simple attitude to anything where my Mum and Dad are concerned, I would do anything for them to be happy just as they did once for me.

The question of where would my brother go if my Dad goes into a home has always been there. He has been told by all of us that he should have time to get himself together and find somewhere to live, so there's no worry about him being out on the street, well as long as Dad's money lasts, but as said it was always an unquestioned problem. It has obviously suited everyone whilst my brother's been there, it has bought Dad another year at home anyway. But to be fair to Mum and Dad it has also suited my brother to be at home, who has lived there for nothing all this time, which was their decision which I respect.

So I suppose at most I feel annoyed I didn't follow through on having them here, but I'm sad that even looking at this a an option doesn't seem to be one. In fact since writing this I've had an email from my sister saying she's going to look at Nursing Homes this week. No mention about my alternative.

So if I come over as sanctimonious or not having a clue about what it's like to be a carer it's far from the truth, all I want is to at least consider is this really what's best for Dad or is it best for us. I know both things may be valid, but it's amazing how proactive some members of the family are when it comes to Dad going in a home, and how inactive they were when I needed help years ago.

This post totally changes the situation from what you said at first.

nad1611

Mojisola wrote: »

It doesn't sound as if Power of Attorney was sorted out while Dad was competent? That would have helped because whoever was named as attorney would be the one to make decisions about his care.

If not, you need to start the process of going to the Court of Protection.
www.alzheimers.org.uk/site/scripts/documents_info.php?documentID=2478

Why are you letting the rest of the family make the decision if you are the one who has managed everything up to now? All the family should be involved in the current plans but it might be that your siblings can see that it would be best for you as well as your Dad if he went into full-time care.

We are in the process of getting the Court of Protection application sorted now as Dad has been declared as lacking Mental Capacity by his GP. We didn't however apply for the Personal Welfare bit we felt it would hold things up and we need to pay for the care he's getting now which I've been paying for up to now as we can't set up a standing order. Bank won't allow it.

There are or seem to be mainly two siblings who seem more keen to have Dad in a home and unfortnately the ones who feel more like me are away, so can't give their opinions, I know obviously nothing will happen til they come back and they will have a lot to say on the matter I'm sure. I have found certain siblings very slow at coming forward when real practical help is needed but want to be the first on board when it comes to things which directly affect them.