Arval Vehicle Leasing attempting to get parking charge from me

AK4LH

Hi everyone, following on from my post in the Lease Companies thread (see post #25), I have now received a reply on email:

Dear Mr Key

Please confirm if you would like Arval to appeal this fine on your behalf with the issuing authority. We would require your grounds for appeal along with any supporting documentation. Once you have confirmed that you wish for us to appeal this fine on your behalf, we can place your invoice into dispute until Arval have received a response from the authority.

I have received a response back from our legal department in relation to your query with your contract.

The purpose and intent of the clause in your agreement is to protect you, the customer and driver, from incurring higher penalties by virtue of none payment of the penalty within the reduced payment period. Whilst Arval understands and appreciates your position in respect of these penalties we have both a legal and moral duty to act in your best interest and protect our assets, which includes vehicles leased to you.

As we are sure you can appreciate having a vehicle clamped, or even seized, is not something we believe is in either your best interest, nor ours, thus the system currently employed ensures early payment of penalties, avoids additional (higher) penalties and ensures as best as possible the vehicle(s) are not clamped or seized.

The majority of our customers are happy for Arval to pay and onward bill all fines, However, if you would prefer Arval not to pay these penalties on receipt please sign and return the attached “Transfer of Liability” document, as this gives Arval some support and protection particularly in recovering seized vehicles, which would otherwise be sold by the authority.

Change of Address (Transfer of Liability)
The reason we pay your parking fines and bus lane offences on your behalf is to reduce any risk of escalation which could lead to increased costs to you. To offer you greater flexibility and control we can change your account policy to enable you to pay your parking fines directly to the issuing Authority.

To enable you to do this, we would amend your policy to ‘Change of Address’ which means that instead of paying your fines we will write to you to tell you that a fine has been received. We will send a copy of your contract to the issuing Authority who will redirect the fine directly to you for payment. The administration fee for this process is £25 + VAT per fine

If you would like us to make this change to your account, we need your consent to pass on your personal data. If you would like to pay your fines directly, please complete the enclosed Change of Address form and send a scanned copy back to us at fines.team@arval.co.uk with the subject ‘Change of Address’.

Exceptions
Please note, we can not redirect congestion charges as the authorities will not allow us to transfer liability to someone else. We will continue to pay these and invoice them through to you. The administration fee for this process is £25 + VAT per fine.

Regards

Cara


So basically I think they are trying it on in an attempt for me to sign that form, but in my opinion I am not obliged to sign such form as I have already signed the lease contract, which I believe they have breached.

I am going to send them an email back with something along the lines of:

Whilst I appreciate Arval have deemed it appropriate to reply immediately and pay the fine on my behalf to reduce risk of an increased fine and/or further action from the parking company, it does not negate from the fact that Arval have acted outside the realms of the lease contract that I signed for the car by paying the charge without my authorisation.

I must stress, as I did in my first email that you are not obliged to take the money from my account, and I will not be signing a change of address authority as I agreed to the original contract when I signed up for the lease.

Do you guys have any advice or opinion about anything else that would be worthwhile putting in?

bargepole

They haven't got a clue.


There is NO 'fine'. There is NO 'authority'.


This is a speculative invoice from a tinpot PPC. Arval only have to pass your details on to the PPC, and they won't have any liability for anything. Do not let them appeal on your behalf, use the appeal process, then POPLA appeal, as shown in the Newbies thread.

trisontana

For a start, stop calling it a "fine" if it's a private parking charge.

bod1467

Search for BVRLA.

Remind Arval (who are BVRLA members) of the guidance they have already received from BVRLA of what to do when presented with a parking charge notice (which is NOT a fine or penalty).

The standard Arval T&Cs for lease vehicles does NOT allow them to pay such speculative invoices; nor does it allow them to apply an admin charge for doing so. (I've had an Arval car before - and have previously made them aware this situation, albeit as a future-proofing exercise and not in relation to an actual parking charge).

Guys_Dad

Refer them to the relevant action required by hirers in POFA 2012. Tell them that as a hirer of vehicles it would be sensible if they acquainted themselves with the law.

Half_way

advice? Do not call it a fine or penalty, especially when dealing with a lease or hire company, doing so will only serve to enforce their (wrong) belief that you have breached their t+cs and make it harder for you to stop them, or get your money back.

bazster

Much too polite in my opinion.

Dear Arval,

It seems that your legal department is not fit for purpose.

(i) There is no issuing authority, it is merely a private company, not an authority of any kind.

(ii) I do not and never did wish you to do anything on my behalf.

(iii) This is not a penalty, merely a speculative invoice which I dispute. Are you seriously trying to tell me that your legal department does not understand that penalties can only be issued by local authorities and the police, not by private companies?

(iv) Clause 10.1 of my lease contract specifically concerns "liability resulting from legislation for the payment of fines or penalties". This is not a penalty, it is not a fine, it is not issued pursuant to any legislation, and therefore Clause 10.1 is irrelevant. Are you seriously trying to tell me that your legal department is incapable of understanding that?

(v) And are you seriously trying to tell me that your legal department is unaware that clamping or removing vehicles on private land has been illegal since October 2012?

(vi) I couldn't care less what the majority of your customers think or do.

(vii) I will not sign a "transfer of liability" document since there is no liability to transfer.

(viii) Once again, there is no "authority" involved in this matter, merely a private company issuing speculative invoices. No private company can seize or sell a vehicle, as to do so would be a breach of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 and also theft.


In conclusion, I am astounded at the ignorance of the law displayed by you and your legal department. To re-iterate my position:

- My lease contract with you does not give you the authority to pay speculative invoices from private companies on my behalf, nor even to charge an administration fee for passing them on to me.

- That you have foolishly paid this invoice is not my problem and is a matter between you and the company that issued it.

- Should you make any charge against my credit card regarding this invoice it will be outwith the terms of the lease agreement and as such will be an unauthorised transaction. It will be reported to the card company as such, who will be obliged to refund me and may well then seek recompense from you.

Redx

I see arval are also using the words penalty and penalties , this is neither, its a parking charge notice (pcn) invoice pure and simple, no private parking company can issue a PENALTY so it wont have the word PENALTY on the invoice

as above, refer them to the BVRLA advice seeing as they are signed up members , also pointing out that there are no "penalties" in this case so their letter does not apply

the correct course of action has been dictated to them by the BVRLA so tell them to follow it (naming the keeper of the vehicles and absolving themselves under POFA 2012)

it would help if you could stop using incorrect words too, like the word FINE , because you need to take the informed high ground here and make sure your words are 100% accurate whilst at the same time rubbishing their words and actions as you can see in the letter by bazster

bod1467

Excellent response baz.

AK4LH

Bazster that is purely awesome! Thank you so much for that. I'm going to send them that reply right now.

In regards to calling it a fine, that was a mistake as i was typing quick at work in between doing actual work and I didn't proof read, as I would with the actual response

Thanks to everyone for their help, I'll let you know what comes back!

bod1467

I disgree - Arval (and other lease companies) have had plenty enough time and chances to get this right and simply decline to do so. Time to fire the guns.