Can someone explain how this is right?

Mojisola

Ames wrote: »

I don't think it would be wise to put it back on the open market. When we thought the sale had gone through my benefits advisor told the DWP that the money would be coming to me soon, to turn around and say actually, no it isn't, is going to look bad.

And if the house sells for less than 145k then not going through with this sale would definitely be deprivation of capital.

Please stop worrying about the benefits - house sales fall through all the time - it won't "look bad" - and you're not going to be accused of DOC - that's more manipulation by your sister and father.

You've got the opportunity to take control back from your relatives - get a new solicitor and start again.

Personally, I'd sell the house to anyone rather than them after the way they've treated you.

missprice

Ames wrote: »

Thanks everyone. I've realised this morning that dad's 'reasonable' suggestions and explanations were just the usual manipulation with a hefty dose of gaslighting thrown in.
well if he really is that bad and gas lighting, you could well be much better off when this is all over stopping contact
I'll say no to getting a tenant in.
Well that's a great start. Keep on saying no to this if you can
I've already - as instructed by dad - told the conveyancer and solicitor to go ahead with the sale asap and agreed his figures.

I don't think it would be wise to put it back on the open market. When we thought the sale had gone through my benefits advisor told the DWP that the money would be coming to me soon, to turn around and say actually, no it isn't, is going to look bad. And if the house sells for less than 145k then not going through with this sale would definitely be deprivation of capital.
There is no deprivation of capital simply because a sale falls through, these house sales fail all the time, think of someone who agreed to buy then got a really bad survey through, they stop the sale or try to renegotiate the price

Missprice, I realised this morning that stamp duty should be paid by sister and not the estate. More manipulation by dad.
Seriously if he can convince you that a legal requirement like stanp duty has to be paid out of the estate, you would be better off changing your number and only having contact via solicitors

I'm not sure about getting a new solicitor. It would just lead to even higher bills. And if this one can't see how manipulative dad and sister are being then what's to say another will?
Stop the sale, get a new solicitor and go slow with it. Even if the solicitor has no idea re gaslighting , you do. You can get help via here. The solicitor you pay has to work to your rules entirely

I'll see what the contention solicitor suggests about it all.[/QUOTE

You could try some slow down tactics when talking to your dad or sister, or indeed even solicitor. Make a list of short break type things
Oh the toast just popped up, back in a sec or do you want to call me back in 5
Hang on the kettle just boiled, back in a sec etc
Ooh there's a knock at my door, just a moment etc
Oh my other phone is ringing, please call me back in 5
One moment please the cat was just sick I need to clear that up or call me back in 10.
Oh dear I just dropped my mug of coffee, please call me back

Make a big list of at least 20 reasons why just this minute you can't talk.

So when a call happens, answer it, get through a couple of things your dad wants to discuss, say a reason, hang up, come here and ask question wait til you have a reply ( ignore the phone while waiting for reply) then carry on. If it takes your dad several attempts at calling you for some reason then tough.

Ames

Mojisola wrote: »

Please stop worrying about the benefits - house sales fall through all the time - it won't "look bad" - and you're not going to be accused of DOC - that's more manipulation by your sister and father.

You've got the opportunity to take control back from your relatives - get a new solicitor and start again.

Personally, I'd sell the house to anyone rather than them after the way they've treated you.

My benefits advisor said that it could be seen as deprivation of capital. Apparantly the office were split on whether or not it could be. Although that was if I just flat out refused the offer and had to sell it for less later, not if the sale fell through.

I really regret not accpeting the offer for £158k eighteen months ago. I don't want to find in another eighteen months that the value's fallen even further and regret not accepting this offer.

missprice wrote: »

Ames wrote: »

Thanks everyone. I've realised this morning that dad's 'reasonable' suggestions and explanations were just the usual manipulation with a hefty dose of gaslighting thrown in.
well if he really is that bad and gas lighting, you could well be much better off when this is all over stopping contact I'm so annoyed with myself. In the last six months I've really come a long way, found all kinds of confidence and stuff since dad and sister haven't been dragging me down telling my I'm a worthless failure all the time. One phonecall and I'm back to doing what I'm told even if it's not in my best interests. So you're right, I do need to stop all contact when it's over.
I'll say no to getting a tenant in.
Well that's a great start. Keep on saying no to this if you can
I've already - as instructed by dad - told the conveyancer and solicitor to go ahead with the sale asap and agreed his figures.

I don't think it would be wise to put it back on the open market. When we thought the sale had gone through my benefits advisor told the DWP that the money would be coming to me soon, to turn around and say actually, no it isn't, is going to look bad. And if the house sells for less than 145k then not going through with this sale would definitely be deprivation of capital.
There is no deprivation of capital simply because a sale falls through, these house sales fail all the time, think of someone who agreed to buy then got a really bad survey through, they stop the sale or try to renegotiate the price

Missprice, I realised this morning that stamp duty should be paid by sister and not the estate. More manipulation by dad.
Seriously if he can convince you that a legal requirement like stanp duty has to be paid out of the estate, you would be better off changing your number and only having contact via solicitors He also convinced me that some of the money I thought was due to me isn't. OK so it's a tiny amount (£150) but it's part of the pattern. He also made lots of promises of 'well there's this bit of money you're owed, no need to go through solicitors I'll just pay it to you direct at some point'.


I'm not sure about getting a new solicitor. It would just lead to even higher bills. And if this one can't see how manipulative dad and sister are being then what's to say another will?
Stop the sale, get a new solicitor and go slow with it. Even if the solicitor has no idea re gaslighting , you do. You can get help via here. The solicitor you pay has to work to your rules entirely

I'll see what the contention solicitor suggests about it all.[/QUOTE

You could try some slow down tactics when talking to your dad or sister, or indeed even solicitor. Make a list of short break type things
Oh the toast just popped up, back in a sec or do you want to call me back in 5
Hang on the kettle just boiled, back in a sec etc
Ooh there's a knock at my door, just a moment etc
Oh my other phone is ringing, please call me back in 5
One moment please the cat was just sick I need to clear that up or call me back in 10.
Oh dear I just dropped my mug of coffee, please call me back

Make a big list of at least 20 reasons why just this minute you can't talk.

So when a call happens, answer it, get through a couple of things your dad wants to discuss, say a reason, hang up, come here and ask question wait til you have a reply ( ignore the phone while waiting for reply) then carry on. If it takes your dad several attempts at calling you for some reason then tough.

I don't think I'll be speaking to him again. I don't usually answer the phone, I've no idea why I did then. In fact, I think I might just unplug it. There's still my mobile but that shows who's calling so I can just not answer.


I think that my plan now is to wait and see what comes back from the various people. See what the conveyancer has to say about why the sale didn't go through as planned, and what the probate solicitor has to say about the debts, although as I've agreed to them all I don't think I can go back now.

I'm not sure that I can handle changing solicitors and dealing with estate agents right now though. I'm waiting for hospital tests (brain scan and genetic testing) which I'm nervous of. Stupidly I told dad this, which gives them something else to use against me.

Thanks again for all your help and support, I'm sorry if it seems as though I just ignored it all last night. At least I realised what he was doing by this morning though, which is a huge step forward in a lot of ways.

Mojisola

Ames wrote: »

My benefits advisor said that it could be seen as deprivation of capital.

Apparantly the office were split on whether or not it could be.

Ask your benefits advisor to show you a case where this has happened!

missprice

Ames wrote: »

My benefits advisor said that it could be seen as deprivation of capital. Apparantly the office were split on whether or not it could be. Although that was if I just flat out refused the offer and had to sell it for less later, not if the sale fell through.

nah can't see it being DOC not yet. If its worth 100k and you got 20k then that's DOC, main problem there us a house is worth what someone will pay for it, not a notional random price that any estate agent or family member say.





I really regret not accpeting the offer for £158k eighteen months ago. I don't want to find in another eighteen months that the value's fallen even further and regret not accepting this offer.
That's a bit variable. Just cos 158 was offered, does not mean that would have been final, things go wrong.

missprice wrote: »

I don't think I'll be speaking to him again. I don't usually answer the phone, I've no idea why I did then. In fact, I think I might just unplug it. There's still my mobile but that shows who's calling so I can just not answer.

I'm not sure that I can handle changing solicitors and dealing with estate agents right now though. I'm waiting for hospital tests (brain scan and genetic testing) which I'm nervous of. Stupidly I told dad this, which gives them something else to use against me.

Fair enough, its a big ask for anyone to just up and change things, as for telling your dad, well its done now.

Thanks again for all your help and support, I'm sorry if it seems as though I just ignored it all last night. At least I realised what he was doing by this morning though, which is a huge step forward in a lot of ways.

And you can ignore or use any advice you like. You sure don't have to be sorry.

Ames

Mojisola wrote: »

Ask your benefits advisor to show you a case where this has happened!

That's the point though, it's such an unusual situation that they just can't say for sure either way. They even called the DWP who couldn't give an answer. It would all depend on what happened in the long run. So, turning down the offer wouldn't in itself be DOC, but turning it down and then it taking years to sell for a much lower price could be. Added to that sister's threats to report me to the DWP and tell them that I was turning down the offer just to stay on benefits and it was/is too risky.

My benefits advisor said they couldn't advice either way, just explained that it could be seen as DOC as above, but it could also not be. It would be down to the individual DM on the day.

missprice wrote: »

Ames wrote: »

My benefits advisor said that it could be seen as deprivation of capital. Apparantly the office were split on whether or not it could be. Although that was if I just flat out refused the offer and had to sell it for less later, not if the sale fell through.

nah can't see it being DOC not yet. If its worth 100k and you got 20k then that's DOC, main problem there us a house is worth what someone will pay for it, not a notional random price that any estate agent or family member say.





I really regret not accpeting the offer for £158k eighteen months ago. I don't want to find in another eighteen months that the value's fallen even further and regret not accepting this offer.
That's a bit variable. Just cos 158 was offered, does not mean that would have been final, things go wrong.


And you can ignore or use any advice you like. You sure don't have to be sorry.

I just don't want people to think I'm wasting their time on this thread. I am listening, it's just that it's a big, scary decision to make. Whatever I do it could all go spectacularly wrong.

Oh, Savvy_Sue, thanks for the link to the dead dog thread. I've heard about it before but never got round to reading it. I've got most of the way through, with the help of a large cafetiere of coffee, and it's cheered me up no end. I took your advice and only drank when new pages were loading though, my tablet doesn't take kindly to having coffee spat all over it!

missprice

Ames wrote: »

That's the point though, it's such an unusual situation that they just can't say for sure either way. They even called the DWP who couldn't give an answer. It would all depend on what happened in the long run. So, turning down the offer wouldn't in itself be DOC, but turning it down and then it taking years to sell for a much lower price could be. Added to that sister's threats to report me to the DWP and tell them that I was turning down the offer just to stay on benefits and it was/is too risky.

My benefits advisor said they couldn't advice either way, just explained that it could be seen as DOC as above, but it could also not be. It would be down to the individual DM on the day.

missprice wrote: »

I just don't want people to think I'm wasting their time on this thread. I am listening, it's just that it's a big, scary decision to make. Whatever I do it could all go spectacularly wrong.

Oh, Savvy_Sue, thanks for the link to the dead dog thread. I've heard about it before but never got round to reading it. I've got most of the way through, with the help of a large cafetiere of coffee, and it's cheered me up no end. I took your advice and only drank when new pages were loading though, my tablet doesn't take kindly to having coffee spat all over it!

No sorry I would refute it with the DWP if it came to it,
I have heard of houses not selling for years and just because someone wants an utterly unrealistic price.

I tell my neighbor he can buy my house for half a million every time he has a go at me. He always says that's too much, too much. Dunno why he repeats it. But he is right, its worth maybe 100k on a good day.

But if the DWP want to take that one to a tribunal I would be right there arguing the case with you

Your sis can say what she likes, DWP would investigate first, not just cut off benefits. Plus you could try this the other way and tell her if she dares to tell tale on
You you will stop this sale and hang the consequences

And for last point, how much more spectacularly wrong could it go?

Ames

It could get much worse.

The mortgage company have a suspended possession order, so I'd have to keep paying the mortgage while trying to sell it. There's also the council tax. As I can't afford £370 a month, repossession is a real risk and would leave me with nothing, although I'd still have my solicitor's bill to pay. The council could follow the lead of others, and charge 150% or even 200% council tax as the property's been empty for two years. On top of which, once I got the keys changed I'd have to keep going over there regularly to keep an eye out for emergency repairs, which would cost me in petrol, and I wouldn't have the money to pay for any repairs.

I've had the solicitor's bill, which has to be paid within 28 days, if it isn't they can start adding interest. I don't have a spare three grand, or means to borrow it.

If the DWP took issue with the way I've dealt with things then all hope of getting permission to buy a property would be gone.

My solicitor was pretty adamant that sister could take me to court and have me removed as administrator - I can only imagine the mess she'd make of things.

Dad and sister could trash the place - dad's already threatened to take the kitchen out if I don't sell to them.

Sister could say she's been living there, which gives her additional rights AIUI.

And there's my personal circumstances. I've been on the waiting list for a new council place because where I am now's unsuitable. I've been bidding for a year now so hopefully I'll be getting to the top of the list. But I'll have trouble finding the cash to move, especially if I'm still paying out for the mortgage and council tax. And once I move my bills will go up.

Dad and sister pretty much have me over a barrel, and they know it. The best I can do is negotiate the least bad deal I can get.

Caroline_a

I've just read through this thread, and a couple of things spring to mind.

Ames wrote: »

It could get much worse.

The mortgage company have a suspended possession order, so I'd have to keep paying the mortgage while trying to sell it. The mortgage is no more your responsibility than your sisters! It is the 'estate's' so no debt from this can be passed to you.There's also the council tax. As I can't afford £370 a month, repossession is a real risk and would leave me with nothing, although I'd still have my solicitor's bill to pay. Again, I would suspect that the solicitor will be paid out of the estate - so no liability hereThe council could follow the lead of others, and charge 150% or even 200% council tax as the property's been empty for two years. Same reasoning as before...On top of which, once I got the keys changed I'd have to keep going over there regularly to keep an eye out for emergency repairs, which would cost me in petrol, and I wouldn't have the money to pay for any repairs.

I've had the solicitor's bill, which has to be paid within 28 days, if it isn't they can start adding interest. I don't have a spare three grand, or means to borrow it.

If the DWP took issue with the way I've dealt with things then all hope of getting permission to buy a property would be gone.

My solicitor was pretty adamant that sister could take me to court and have me removed as administrator - I can only imagine the mess she'd make of things. Let her - it will cost her!

Dad and sister could trash the place - dad's already threatened to take the kitchen out if I don't sell to them. So he will then owe the estate for the cost of the kitchen and the drop in value of the house

Sister could say she's been living there, which gives her additional rights AIUI.

And there's my personal circumstances. I've been on the waiting list for a new council place because where I am now's unsuitable. I've been bidding for a year now so hopefully I'll be getting to the top of the list. But I'll have trouble finding the cash to move, especially if I'm still paying out for the mortgage and council tax. And once I move my bills will go up.

Dad and sister pretty much have me over a barrel, and they know it. The best I can do is negotiate the least bad deal I can get. Actually, you have them over a barrel too!

I think you have to start thinking of 'the estate', as a totally separate entitity, so that any debt or bill that the house, or anything to do with the house, is owing is owed by the estate. Call the estate Fred if it helps! :rotfl: So, Fred owns the house, the mortgage arrears are down to Fred, any legal fees incurred by selling the house should be paid by Fred, as should any funeral costs, etc. Fred owned the car your sister took, so she owes him for half the value.

Does that help any, or does it just muddy the waters?

dancingfairy

O.K so what's the plan to get shot of this house as quickly as practical and get these parasites out of your life? You're so close now.

df