Can someone explain how this is right?

Ames

missprice wrote: »

By she I think you mean solicitor? She will do what you tell her, I.e pay all the bills/some of the bills/none of the bills.

The estate is liable only for council tax to the date its sold. After that date its the new owners problem. Assuming that the estate is indeed liable?

From which website
Council tax when you move home
If you move home, you need to let the council know in advance, so that they can stop charging you council tax for your old address from the day you move out.

If you are staying within the borough, they will adjust your bill to a new rate.

If you are moving further afield, your new council should be notified, and will start charging you council tax based on your new property's rating from the day you move in.

Sorry, yes I meant the solicitor. I wasn't sure if there'd be legal issues about paying some of the debts before the others, if it's like with debt plans where you can't treat one creditor more favourably than others.

I've had the solicitor's bill through today, payable within 28 days. I assume though that that doesn't mean the work is finished, and she can just issue further bills/do more work?

I've been thinking more about sister and the council tax discount. She lived in mum's house last summer, I helped her move in in late June/early July and she'd have moved out sometime in September (her work's term time only). So I think it's a bit cheeky of her to complain about the council tax and only getting a discount on one property when she lived rent free for at least two months, and had her utilities billed to the estate.

Definitely hope I can see the contention solicitor quickly.

Savvy_Sue

It would be too much to hope that you had anything in writing agreeing that your sister could live in the house over the summer, and that she'd be responsible for the council tax? And who was paying the other utilities? I presume they have been paid, or are there further surprises to come?

Anyway, if you did have anything in writing, sending a copy to the court when you ask for the date to be deferred pending sale might reduce the estate's liability - I'm not going to say your liability, because it's not!

If you wanted to post that specific query on the Cutting Tax board, we have some very knowledgeable posters over there, or if you'd prefer I could see if one of them would take a look here?

Ames

Far too much to hope for anything in writing! Although surely the fact that she put the council tax in her name and claimed the 25% single person discount proves she was living there? (Although it could just prove she was committing benefit fraud, which wouldn't be the first time).

Utilities haven't been paid, dad took a metre reading a couple of weeks ago, so we're waiting for the final bill. We've had an estimated one, which I think is low. I remember ages ago we got an estimated and I had a look at the metre and the reading was far higher than the estimated one. I've allowed for this in my estimates of the debts though.

Would you mind asking if someone could take a look at this thread? It's probably better than me trying to explain the situation to the cutting tax boad, since all the information's here. I'd probably miss some vital point if I started a new thread.

Savvy_Sue

Ames wrote: »

Far too much to hope for anything in writing! Although surely the fact that she put the council tax in her name and claimed the 25% single person discount proves she was living there? (Although it could just prove she was committing benefit fraud, which wouldn't be the first time).

Ah, now, if the CT bill is in HER name, then AFAIK it's HER the council should be chasing. And if they're chasing you / the estate instead, could that be because they do not know where to find her? That's something you can put right, isn't it?

I'll get the CT people over here for you.

Savvy_Sue

OK, I've PMed a couple of the Council Tax experts with this executive summary of the CT problem:

Ames is executor of her mother's estate, which is to be shared 50/50 with her sister. Apart from their late mother's house, there's not a lot else in the estate.

Sister lived in the house for a while, claimed the 25% single occupancy discount, and then stopped paying. And Ames, presumably as executor, has now received a summons for non-payment.

No-one seems to have any money for anything, and all the 'estate' is tied up in the house, which Ames's sister and father are buying at what appears to be a knock down price, with a mortgage. That's taking all their available capital, and Ames is likely to end up getting less than she should (half the value of the estate), because the sister is getting her half in the form of the house and there will be various bills to be paid from what the mortgage company pays over for the house purchase. However AFAICS that's only relevant to the CT problem in that Ames doesn't have the money to settle the bill immediately.

My gut feeling is that if Ames's sister had her name on the bill, then she's the one due to pay the bill for that period, and the estate is only due to pay for the period before sister moved in and after sister moved out.

We know that liability will end when the house is sold, although the council will ask for payment to the end of the financial year and then refund. Not that it can be paid right now - how do councils deal with bills owed by estates which haven't yet been finalised?

I've put this on the thread a) so that Ames can correct me if I've got anything wrong and b) so that the experts can easily quote me if necessary.

Ames

Thank you so much, that's a brilliant summation.

The only thing slightly wrong is that the house is a knock down price. The price is based on three independent EA valuations. However, I believe that dad and sister are responsible for at least some of the drop in value. Also, as I wasn't there when the valuations were done I have a strong suspicion that dad would have told them everything that was slightly wrong and needed doing to the place, rather than talking it up. Obviously I can't prove that though.

I did wonder how the estate got the council tax bill and court summons when it was in sister's name, I assumed she took her name off it but she could have just done a runner. I can't tell them where she lives though. I know where she was living, but not the address, but she'll be moving soon if she hasn't already.

When she moved to the last but one place she decided she didn't want me to know where she lived in case I 'had a bipolar episode and hassled her'. Which I found odd at the time, as the only time I'd ever gone to her home uninvited was when dad asked me to because she'd told him she'd taken an overdose and cut her wrists (which turned out to be a lie).

I do have to bear in mind though that the solicitor charges £160 an hour, and if it gets complicated will probably hand it back to her superior at £200 an hour. So I have to carefully weigh up the pros and cons of raising any issues, based of course on the advice of the contention solicitor if I can get an appointment soon.

Ames

Oh, just read your post again S_S. Sister claimed the discount when she wasn't living there, which I assume complicates things regarding liability.

She lived there June to September 2013, but claimed the discount until March 2014.

She told me she was living there weekends and holidays, but as the leak in the kitchen got so bad part of the roof fell in, obviously she wasn't doing. I'm pretty sure she said that just to get me off her case about how it would be benefit fraud if she wasn't actually living there, regardless of the fact she wasn't claiming a discount on her flat in Leeds.

As far as I know the house has been sold. Neither the conveyancer or the probate solicitor have told me though. As the probate solicitor is asking for permission to pay everything out (including what sister claims she's owed) I assume she has the money.

Savvy_Sue

Ames wrote: »

The only thing slightly wrong is that the house is a knock down price.

I don't think that's relevant for CT purposes.

Ames wrote: »

Also, as I wasn't there when the valuations were done I have a strong suspicion that dad would have told them everything that was slightly wrong and needed doing to the place, rather than talking it up. Obviously I can't prove that though.

To be fair, I think Estate Agents are fairly shrewd about that kind of thing, and their instinct would be to up the price in any event.

Ames wrote: »

I did wonder how the estate got the council tax bill and court summons when it was in sister's name, I assumed she took her name off it but she could have just done a runner. I can't tell them where she lives though. I know where she was living, but not the address, but she'll be moving soon if she hasn't already.

Where did the summons get sent, to the solicitor?

You may not know where sister is living now, and you may not know where she's moving to, but you definitely know an address at which post should reach her, don't you? Make sure the council know that SHE is buying the house, and that they are told the date of completion.

Ames

Yes, the summons was sent to the solicitor. The solicitor did say she'd told them about the sale, but I don't know whether she made it clear who was buying it and when the sale went through.

Savvy_Sue

It's a long time since I bought or sold a house, but are there any address details for sister on the paperwork?

I'd also be prepared to give Dad's address as a c/o.

AND I do hope that one of the things on your list of things to do is changing your phone. You could put an answerphone message on the old no along the lines of "Hi, this is Ames, I've changed my number, if I haven't given you the new one please leave a message if you think I want to hear from you." Check it to begin with, delete any unwanted messages, give new phone no. to people you want to hear from.

If you feel you HAVE to respond to Dad and sis, either use that phone to speak to them or write to them c/o the house they've just bought.

You can then draw a very large SEP field around them.