Can someone explain how this is right?

Crabapple

Ames wrote: »

My mental health is deteriorating rapidly. Even decisions like 'what shall I have for tea' are becoming difficult. Added to which I have several other big stresses and problems at the moment apart from the probate ones.

As much as what your 'family' are doing is wrong, and the legal advice is frankly bad, for the sake of your own health you may be best to let this lie.

Things are nearly complete as long as you don't pursue an argument. The best thing longterm may be to take what money you are being offered and get rid of these toxic influences in your life, and concentrate on yourself xx

g6jns_2

Ames wrote: »

Hi all. The saga of the estate of my late mother is finally coming to a close, with my dad and sister buying me out of my half of the house (that's all there is to the estate, no money). Mum and dad were divorced a good decade before she died, sole beneficiaries are me and sister. No will, I'm estate administrator. There's a few things I'm confused about though.

I had a real shock a couple of months ago when I was basically told that if I didn't accept my sister's offer she could go to court to remove me as administrator. I'd actually been considering taking her to court because of actions that I felt to be unlawful. When my solicitor told me I had it all wrong I realised that I'd been having a manic episode and nearly got myself into a lot of hot water. I've just about come to terms with the fact that I became so ill without realising it. I still keep having thoughts though of 'that can't be right, surely'.

So I was hoping some of you wonderful and knowledgable people could help me get it straight in my head so I can properly move on?

In no particular order, here are the issues (or the ones I can remember, anyway).

1. The car. Within days of mum's death my sister put mum's car into her own name and has been driving it around ever since. We had an offer to buy it at £2500 on the day of mum's death.

I thought: That I was entitled to half the value of the car and it would automatically be sorted out when the estate is wound up.
It turns out: My sister has to agree to this. Obviously, she wont.

2. Work on the house. As soon as the probate forms were handed in, dad and sister ripped out the old kitchen (after I told them not to). They've done other work to the house. Dad has submitted an invoice for nearly £9k for this work - £600 of which he added this week for work done after they'd said they wanted to buy it.

I can't understand how it's right that the estate pays for improvements to the house done by the purchaser? No value has been added to the house, if anything the value has dropped because it took at least two years (as far as I know it still isn't finished) to do and any increase was negated by falling house prices and viewers saying 'sorry it needs too much work to finish'.

3. Living there... or not. Last summer sister told me she was going to live in the property on weekends and holidays and get a bedsit near work for weekdays. She applied for the 25% single occupancy discount.

I can't understand how the estate is paying the utility bills for the whole period since mum died, even though sister was (supposed to be) living there for periods of time.

4. Living there... or not. Part 2. On New Years Day, from abroad, I called dad and sister, to be told that the kitchen roof had fallen in. (Which turned out to be an exaggeration). The problem with the roof (estimate of 2k to fix) is responsible for the 14k reduction in house value.

I can't understand how if sister was living there the leak got so bad that part of the roof fell in. (Except, of course, that it turns out she wasn't living there, and was committing benefit fraud). Surely she's done something wrong there?

It turns out there's nothing I can complain about.

5. Money we've paid in. for the last two years we've been paying the mortgage, on the understanding that we'd get whatever we put in back when the house sold. Last year the council tax was added into the mix. I've submitted bank statements showing all the payments I've made. My dad and sister are now saying that she should get an amount equal to half of all the bills back.

I think that sister should get back what she actually paid. So, she got the single person discount and so at the very least the difference between that and the discount she could have got on her bedsit should be accounted for. Oh, and she stopped paying the council tax at all, without telling anyone, 'a few months ago'. She still hasn't said when this was. So I don't think she should get half the council tax back, when she wasn't paying it, but that's what her and dad are proposing.

I thought it would be quite simple - we both submit statements and get back what we put in. It seems we have to negotiate with what they're prepared to accept.

Although at least the probate solicitor has backed me up in saying no to their latest proposal - that the estate pays this year's council tax (ie up to next March), and if they get a rebate when they get tenants in they'll share it with me.

Finally! The conveyancing (I've posted on the housing board about this too).

I thought that the estate was liable for the conveyancing costs in relation to the sale.

It turns out that I'm personally liable.


I really thought that agreeing to sell to them at the price they offered would be the end of all of it. That there'd be simple maths to do and procedures to follow and I'd just have to keep on top of paperwork and wait for my cheque. But they're fighting over every last penny owed by the estate (except to them).

I know I'm being silly and petty, but all this stuff's keeping me up at night. I've accepted that I was in the wrong, but if someone could explain how and why it'll be a lot easier to move on. I raised most of these issues with the probate solicitor, but she didn't answer any of them just said 'you have to accept their offer or they'll take you to court'.

Really sorry for yet another long and whingy post. But don't worry - the end is in sight! Hopefully I'll have the cheque within a couple of weeks and be free of my family forever (we've not spoken since February), and so have nothing to moan about. Apart from the weather. (I do live in Yorkshire).

The whole situation is ridiculous. If you are the administrator nobody else has any right to do any of the things you say have been done. How is a "probate solicitor" involved? As administrator you are not personally liable for any costs unless you act improperly. Your sister has at best taken the car without the owner's consent and at worst stolen it. The advice given by your solicitor is totally wrong.

Ames

Crabapple wrote: »

As much as what your 'family' are doing is wrong, and the legal advice is frankly bad, for the sake of your own health you may be best to let this lie.

Things are nearly complete as long as you don't pursue an argument. The best thing longterm may be to take what money you are being offered and get rid of these toxic influences in your life, and concentrate on yourself xx

Thanks. As I said originally, this is more about me setting my mind at ease than wanting any legal redress.

I've spent so many sleepless nights tossing and turning thinking 'but how can x,y,z be right and fair and legal. But the solicitor says it is, so it must be. So I'm in the wrong'.

If someone had said, say, 'yes you as an individual pay the conveyancer because of a,b,c legal reason' I would have been able to accept that.

In a way it's good to hear that it is family pushing things and crap legal advice - it means I'm not as mad as I thought. (I have bipolar disorder and to be told I was on the brink of having legal action taken against me and that I was about to commit benefit fraud really spooked me and the only reason I could think that it had got so far was that I was seriously ill).

If it's just unfairness then I can live with that and move on.

Hopefully now the demons will be laid to rest and I'll get to sleep tonight earlier than 5am!

g6jns wrote: »

The whole situation is ridiculous. If you are the administrator nobody else has any right to do any of the things you say have been done. How is a "probate solicitor" involved? As administrator you are not personally liable for any costs unless you act improperly. Your sister has at best taken the car without the owner's consent and at worst stolen it. The advice given by your solicitor is totally wrong.

I engaged the probate solicitor when dad and sister were pushing me to do borderline illegal things. I couldn't handle the pressure and emotional blackmail from them so I appointed a solicitor to deal with the estate and make sure everything was covered legally.

The first solicitor was brilliant. For instance with the car, she said that whatever sister said was irrelevent, because she'd be the one dishing the money out and would include it on the balance sheet - as she legally had to. She was really on the ball with making sure everything was legal, fair, and above board.

But then the company was bought out by one with a poor reputation, and she went on maternity leave. Since then the people filling in don't seem to have read any of the notes properly and just seem to want to get it all sorted as quickly as possible. I get the feeling they're sitting there thinking 'why all this fuss over just a few thousand'. I really felt backed against a wall when I was told that unless I had a good reason to turn down sister's offer I could get into trouble for not doing so.

mountainofdebt

Mojisola wrote: »

Other points - the value of the car which your sister took should be deduced from her share of the estate;

Totally 100% agree with this.

SIL had FIL's car and it was agreed that the value of the car would come out of her share of the proceeds.....unfortuantely when there is likely to be a payout it will probably be peanuts in real terms but that's a complete different story!

Ames

That's my sister's argument, that three and a half years on it's value is just a few hundred for scrap. I can't get through to her that it's the value at the time of death (ie on the probate form) that's relevant. If we'd accepted the offer of £2500 on the day of mum's death, that would still be £2500 sitting in an account.

mountainofdebt

Ames - sorry I gave you the wrong impression!

SIL had the car with the full agreement of OH and the solicitor was instructed to to take the value of the car out of my SIL's share of the inheritance; again both SIL and OH were happy with this

However due to (imo) a poorly worded will, neither she or my OH is likely to see any inheritance for a good few years

Personally your sister is taking the mick and although it would stick in my throat, it sounds as if whatever you have to agree to get shot of her from your life it would be well worth it.

Ames

Ah right, sorry. Sorry to hear about the badly worded will.

If I'm honest, mental health problems aside, I've been a lot better without her and dad in my life. Without them dragging me down (telling me I'm a failure, that my degree's not worth doing as it isn't science, that I'm useless and laughing at my ambitions) I'm a lot happier and more confident about myself. It's just over the last few weeks there's been this big blip, mainly because of all the stress from the house sale and other things.

There's nothing like three days in a hospital bed with no-one to see or talk to to make you re-evaluate relationships!

loubel

It seems that everything has got into a real mess unfortunately. You are the sole administrator of the estate and therefore it is you who should be making decisions and taking action, not your sister or your dad. It sounds like your new solicitor simply doesn't understand what has been going on. I would suggest you send them a letter setting out as clearly as you can the issues with the estate administration and ask them for a meeting to go through everything. Hopefully once the new solicitor understands what's going on they can explain things for you and work out an action plan for getting things back on track.

whitewing

I guess it is stressful for your sister (in a different way) which may be affecting her behaviour.

I think they are treating you unfairly. I agree for your health it may be better to focus on what you are getting, rather than what you are not getting. (But an opinion from a new solicitor may be worth getting, if you can stomach it).

Ames

loubel wrote: »

It seems that everything has got into a real mess unfortunately. You are the sole administrator of the estate and therefore it is you who should be making decisions and taking action, not your sister or your dad. It sounds like your new solicitor simply doesn't understand what has been going on. I would suggest you send them a letter setting out as clearly as you can the issues with the estate administration and ask them for a meeting to go through everything. Hopefully once the new solicitor understands what's going on they can explain things for you and work out an action plan for getting things back on track.

whitewing wrote: »

I guess it is stressful for your sister (in a different way) which may be affecting her behaviour.

I think they are treating you unfairly. I agree for your health it may be better to focus on what you are getting, rather than what you are not getting. (But an opinion from a new solicitor may be worth getting, if you can stomach it).

Is there time to see the solicitor or get a second opinion? Given that the completion date was yesterday? (I don't know if it actually went through then or not). The reason I cancelled the appointment with the contention solicitor was that there wasn't time before paperwork was signed. I assumed that at that point everything was set in stone and couldn't be challenged.

Although I suppose it's possible for the house sale to go through and the estate not to be wound up straight away, but that leaves me with the conveyancing bill and no way of paying it. And AIUI from the conveyancer, I'll be getting a cheque from her when the house sells rather than when all the estate bills are paid. I think the idea is she sends a payment to the probate solicitor to pay the estate debts and a cheque to me for my share at the same time.