Peugeot 308 v Seat Leon

roonaldo

motorguy wrote: »

Sorry, but you're really showing your ignorance when it comes to cars.

I wouldnt particularly contest *any* of the winners. Lots of game changers in there, quite a few iconic cars, and quite a few that are seen as modern classics.

Some of them you do need to look at them in the context of what else was being produced at the time.

Sorry to touch a nerve, I just feel its best from a motoring point of view to avoid french cars and fiats!

jaydeeuk1

motorguy wrote: »

?

And which ones would you not agree with??

mk7 Golf last year?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Car_of_the_Year

All look like logical and reasonable choices to me.

The fact that the peugeot 308 beat the i3 and that the corsa once came 2nd proves the list is a load of sh*t. A fiat tipo once won it - I had one, they were utter w*nk.

roonaldo

motorguy wrote: »

The 156 was a game changer when it came out - it had real "wow" factor. Something different.

I must admit when I had an Alfa 156 I did "Wow" at the electrical gremlins, lifeless engine, falling off body parts, yearly cam belt changes (i do lots of miles), its oil consumption and the long list of other common faults it had.

I did like the seats and ridiculously big spoiler it had. I was strangely fond of it though but never again!

roonaldo

Titanic won oscars, Coronation Street win TV awards, One Direction win brits and they're all utter sh1te.

motorguy

roonaldo wrote: »

Sorry to touch a nerve, I just feel its best from a motoring point of view to avoid french cars and fiats!

LOL.

No worries. In many ways i agree with you.

motorguy

jaydeeuk1 wrote: »

The fact that the peugeot 308 beat the i3 and that the corsa once came 2nd proves the list is a load of sh*t. A fiat tipo once won it - I had one, they were utter w*nk.

Well, with that well structured, thought out objective reasoning, who could argue with you?

motorguy

roonaldo wrote: »

I must admit when I had an Alfa 156 I did "Wow" at the electrical gremlins, lifeless engine, falling off body parts, yearly cam belt changes (i do lots of miles), its oil consumption and the long list of other common faults it had.

I did like the seats and ridiculously big spoiler it had. I was strangely fond of it though but never again!

Yeah same here - i'd a 156 2.5 v6 Veloce SP3. Did the "pram handle" spoiler.

Loved it.

(but never again)

motorguy

roonaldo wrote: »

Titanic won oscars, Coronation Street win TV awards, One Direction win brits and they're all utter sh1te.

Thats your subjective opinion though. You need to look at all these things within context.

DominicH

If you look at the German ADAC tables for car reliability over the last ten years or so, the French makes have improved markedly in the last few years, albeit from a pretty sorry position. I wouldn't turn a recent one down on reliability grounds. Probably as good as VAG, who are by no means the best on that front.

motorguy

DominicH wrote: »

If you look at the German ADAC tables for car reliability over the last ten years or so, the French makes have improved markedly in the last few years, albeit from a pretty sorry position. I wouldn't turn a recent one down on reliability grounds. Probably as good as VAG, who are by no means the best on that front.

What does "reliability" mean though in the context of a new car?

Its covered under warranty anyway. Probably the worst we've had recently for reliability was a BMW z4 3.0i that was back for a couple of minor things under warranty.

I think the problem period is midlife onwards. I would be very jumpy about buying a diesel older than say, 2008, because i've seen so many in the trade with problems in the period 2008-2005. Blown turbos, EGR valve problems, knackered DPFs, floating flywheels on their way out, etc, etc.

Having said that, i'd say most of the problems are down to lack of decent maintenance OR the wrong car for the mileage being done.

I have a particular hatred for the 1.6HDI engine having seen so many with problems, yet we got a 2006 307 1.6HDI from a main peugeot dealers that had been traded in with 160K miles and it was running as sweet as a nut. Interestingly had a FPSH. I've also had ones with 60K miles and they've been pigs, but interestingly incomplete service histories.

I got a Oct 2012 Golf 1.6TDI this time last year and have done 23K miles in it since with no issues at all. I plan to get it serviced every 10K miles and keep it with the main dealer. Expecting 200K miles before anything major goes wrong - though of course that will remain to be seen.