Family guarantor gone wrong (HELP!!)

Leigh1984

Hi All,

My Wife was a guarantor for her brother back in october 2010, it was against my wife's old house in her name and the contract was signed in her maiden name and married name (We have now bought a house in joint names) and everything has been fine until he had (ISSUES) which has led to the eviction in February 2014 and now we owe £1300. :mad:

The Contract was for 6 months then rolling, we have a letter for a new signing it says "your tenancy agreement is due for renewal, if you and your guarantors (My Wife name) could come to the office to sign your new agreement on 29/05/2013. You will all need photographic evidence" This was signed by brother and not by my wife.

We talked to the land lord verbally agreed a payment plan for rent arrears incurred (although we did not know what was fully outstanding at this time) My wife's brother was talking to the home options team and he had to have a payment plan in place although I didn't feel comfortable but (Family is Family and we didn't want to see him on the streets)

Unfortunately missed a payment receiving a last letter before court action the next thing we know my wife has court papers. We responded to the court papers saying we are liable for some of the debt but the landlord had already told the courts he has had contact with us saying we have made an offer of payment which the claimant has accepted which resulted in us getting a CCJ in less than 28 days

Questions we need help on against the above:

1. Is my wife still liable after such a long period 2010 - 2014
2. The new house we are in being in joint names and different address to the last
3. The letter stating a new contract needs signing (Does this contradict the original contract)
4. The original contract being signed in Maiden and Married names
5. What are our options regarding the CCJ

Very long but appreciate anyone who can help us get out of this mess.

Thanks

G_M

Leigh1984 wrote: »

My Wife was a guarantor for her brother back in october 2010, it was against my wife's old house in her name and the contract was signed in her maiden name and married name (We have now bought a house in joint names) and everything has been fine until he had (ISSUES) which has led to the eviction in February 2014 and now we owe £1300. :mad:

The Contract was for 6 months then rolling, we have a letter for a new signing it says "your tenancy agreement is due for renewal, if you and your guarantors (My Wife name) could come to the office to sign your new agreement on 29/05/2013. You will all need photographic evidence" This was signed by brother and not by my wife.


We talked to the land lord verbally agreed a payment plan for rent arrears incurred (although we did not know what was fully outstanding at this time) My wife's brother was talking to the home options team and he had to have a payment plan in place although I didn't feel comfortable but (Family is Family and we didn't want to see him on the streets)

Unfortunately missed a payment receiving a last letter before court action the next thing we know my wife has court papers. We responded to the court papers saying we are liable for some of the debt but the landlord had already told the courts he has had contact with us saying we have made an offer of payment which the claimant has accepted which resulted in us getting a CCJ in less than 28 days

Questions we need help on against the above:

1. Is my wife still liable after such a long period 2010 - 2014The time period is irrelevant. If she is liable, she is liable.
2. The new house we are in being in joint names and different address to the last What has this to do with anything?
3. The letter stating a new contract needs signing (Does this contradict the original contract) I cannot read the original guarantee agreement she signed from here
4. The original contract being signed in Maiden and Married names irrelevant
5. What are our options regarding the CCJ I don't understand how there is a CCJ. Has this debt actually gone to court yet?

Very long but appreciate anyone who can help us get out of this mess.

Thanks

* Do you mean your wife's brother has £1300 in rent arrears?
* What is the exact wording of the original guarantee agreement that your wife signed?
* was the 'payment plan' agreed between the tenant/guranator and landlord, or was it imposed by the court?

dancingfairy

O.K firstly in order for your wife to be liable then the guarantee should have been a signed, witnessed deed I believe.
You have shot yourself in the foot though by first telling the landlord you agree with being liable and secondly telling the court you are liable.
You had court papers, you replied saying you were liable so they granted a CCJ (And presumably the landlord supplied evidence you had admitted the debt as well). I'm not sure what else you expected them to do if you admitted it???
When a judgement is made against you you have 28 days to pay in full otherwise the CCJ will be made permanent.
I can't see how you can overturn the CCJ given that you have admitted the intention was for your wife to be guarantor even if the paperwork almost certainly wasn't correct at the begining (it is not usually done properly). You can apply to the court to appeal but I'm not sure on what grounds you would appeal?
You can also apply to the court to pay the CCJ in installments. If you need to pay in installments you should do this rather than rely on the landlord as otherwise he could claim you have not paid in full and seek enforcement (ie bailiffs, attachement of earnings, charging order, bankruptcy etc).
df
edit: have just reread your post and it mentions your wifes old house. I presume this is irrelavant and she was just signing as a home owner and that the house was not put up as some sort of security.

princeofpounds

You are very vague on the understanding of the whole thing. It is hard for us to comment without much more information.

It sounds like it has gone to court. How long ago was the judgment made?

Given you admitted liability (which was likely a silly move as there is a good chance the guarantee was invalid), probably your best course of action is to pay before the CCJ goes on your record, if you have been fast enough.

The other course of action is to apply to get the verdict set aside, which will be hard given your admission of liability.

Leigh1984

The original agreement was signed and witnessed I am referring to the different names on the agreement My wife's maiden name and then my wife's married name and the letter asking for a new contract to be signed. So basically a new contract was signed by her brother but my wife did not re sign. I verbally set up an arrangement to pay with the landlord for my brother in law nothing was written down. We was advised to reply to the court papers by the local home movers council (Liable for some of the cost)


Before we even sent the court papers back the landlord had already told the courts he has had contact with us (This will be after the 18th July) saying we have made an offer of payment which the claimant has accepted which resulted in us getting a CCJ in less than 28 days (we have not made contact with him since April 2014)

The Contract is against my wife's old house when we move we should have a new agreement due the fact it is in joint names?


We called the courts and they had already issued a CCJ because of what the landlord had already done: (Above in Red) they have put a hold on further proceedings until the landlord can provide evidence of this communication he has apparently had..


I will add the paperwork later today so you can see things better.


The first court papers were received 2nd July and judgement for claimant paperwork was received 22nd July.

dzug1

The fact that your wife has both a maiden name and a married name and that the address recorded for her (and you) has changed is irrelevant to the enforceability of the guarantee

Kynthia

Leigh1984 wrote: »

The original agreement was signed and witnessed I am referring to the different names on the agreement My wife's maiden name and then my wife's married name and the letter asking for a new contract to be signed. So basically a new contract was signed by her brother but my wife did not re sign. I verbally set up an arrangement to pay with the landlord for my brother in law nothing was written down. We was advised to reply to the court papers by the local home movers council (Liable for some of the cost)

Your wife signed the agreement, so it doesn't matter if she used her maiden name, married name, or even changed her name again. Also as far as I'm aware the guarantor doesn't need to sign subsequent fixed term contracts as they are the guarantor for the whole ongoing tenancy unless the original deed said otherwise.

Before we even sent the court papers back the landlord had already told the courts he has had contact with us (This will be after the 18th July) saying we have made an offer of payment which the claimant has accepted which resulted in us getting a CCJ in less than 28 days (we have not made contact with him since April 2014)

The Contract is against my wife's old house when we move we should have a new agreement due the fact it is in joint names?

As far as I know the house has nothing to do with it. They accepted your wife as a guarantor as she was a homeowner which implies she had the funds and the financial responsibility to be able to cover any arrears. The house itself is irrelevant and was not specifically in the agreement and didn't have a charge placed against it. Your wife is the guarantor not the house, as it wouldn't even change things if she sold the place and no longer owned any property.

We called the courts and they had already issued a CCJ because of what the landlord had already done: (Above in Red) they have put a hold on further proceedings until the landlord can provide evidence of this communication he has apparently had..


I will add the paperwork later today so you can see things better.


The first court papers were received 2nd July and judgement for claimant paperwork was received 22nd July.

You only get a CCJ if a court orders you to pay and you don't comply. If you pay you tell the court and it is recorded as such.

princeofpounds

Before we even sent the court papers back the landlord had already told the courts he has had contact with us (This will be after the 18th July) saying we have made an offer of payment which the claimant has accepted which resulted in us getting a CCJ in less than 28 days (we have not made contact with him since April 2014)

The Contract is against my wife's old house when we move we should have a new agreement due the fact it is in joint names?


We called the courts and they had already issued a CCJ because of what the landlord had already done: (Above in Red) they have put a hold on further proceedings until the landlord can provide evidence of this communication he has apparently had..

I am sorry but this part is still making little sense.

Was there a hearing?

Why did you not defend yourself in that hearing?

topdaddy_2

Muddying the already muddy waters but:

Is the brother in law gonna pay anything?

AdrianC

Leigh1984 wrote: »

We talked to the land lord verbally agreed a payment plan for rent arrears incurred

Unfortunately missed a payment

the landlord had already told the courts he has had contact with us saying we have made an offer of payment

The important bits regarding the CCJ are there in the original post.

You agreed a payment plan.
You missed a payment.
The landlord told the court that.

What else is there?

You promised to underwrite any debts your brother left in relation to this tenancy. He left debts. You have to stand by your promise. You agreed a payment plan to do that. You didn't stick to it.

roger196

princeofpounds wrote: »

I am sorry but this part is still making little sense.

Was there a hearing?

Why did you not defend yourself in that hearing?

Were you invited to the hearing. If not, you have grounds to apply to set aside any judgement under Article 6 of the European Convention Of Human Rights. If you were invited to attend but chose not to, I cannot see what your grounds of appeal might be. Be aware that any legal costs could easily outweigh what appears to be due under the guarantee.
The eviction has brought the tenacy to an end. otherwise, there is a danger that if the tenant continues with his tenancy not paying any rent, your laiblity continues forever.