'We've reached a tipping point' Signs of house price weakness

wotsthat

Blooloo wrote: »

If you been paying any attention at all, ie, engaged in debate, you will have observed that one of my key points is that the financialisation of the housing market removes this choice from many and increasing numbers of people.

It sounds like a groupthink thing. What does it mean? What choices have you lost as a result?

hpc_troll

wotsthat wrote: »

What do you want exactly - a fight in the playground about the effects of a Polish cafe worker living in an HMO on house prices?

Sorry, wotsthat, cross-posting with my previous - this then I'm out.

I suppose what I wanted from this thread in particular was to be exposed to different more bullish perspectives and understand what informed them.

Blooloo

wotsthat wrote: »

It sounds like a groupthink thing. What does it mean? What choices have you lost as a result?

I think I was clear what it means..making an arbitrage out of a family wanting a home...the family doesnt qualify for a mortgage, yet another individual is given a lower cost to buy the same thing through a tax break and no tight lending criteria, to pay not only their own rent, but the costs of the BTL landlord as well.

This is financial chicanery of the lowest morality.

Rota

Blooloo wrote: »

Im not sure "signs of house price weakness" is the cue for "happy clappy crash ...salivate over" to be the claimed siren call on another website.

However, Im sure the priced out in the UK will start to gain some hope, the over-mortgaged see their next move up will be cheaper, and the economy becomes just a little more competitive. LTVS for remortgaging might fall and increase the rates for investors relying on 2 year rate teasers...

I started on similar. Then I increased my skills to earn more money. There is always an excuse as to why life is tough. Only one person can change their circumstances.

wotsthat

Blooloo wrote: »

I think I was clear what it means..making an arbitrage out of a family wanting a home...the family doesnt qualify for a mortgage, yet another individual is given a lower cost to buy the same thing through a tax break and no tight lending criteria, to pay not only their own rent, but the costs of the BTL landlord as well.

This is financial chicanery of the lowest morality.

I bet you were delighted when mortgages were restricted and deposit requirements increased so there might be a touch of hypocrisy there.

Blooloo

wotsthat wrote: »

I bet you were delighted when mortgages were restricted and deposit requirements increased so there might be a touch of hypocrisy there.

You are clearly quite young.

In 1989-1993, I lost friends to suicide when they had previously been apparently extremely successful.

All were self starters, all had the positive attitude to work and life.

I hope it doesnt happen to anyone else...but sadly, over extending debt is a serious problem for many people...its great while you, your market and conditions are in your favour, but they can turn on a dime.

I myself was struck down by a sick driver last year...my plans to expand my business gone in a second.

To carte blanche blame a person for their own misfortune is a sadly overused meme in the self improvers market...rife in the property courses and BMV dealers arena. It is THE driver to get people to part with cash for being "on the inside". Nothing wrong with a bit of greed, but entrepreneurship is not for everybody.

Also, for a person to peak above the average, someone else has to fall behind a bit...that is the very essence of "getting ahead".

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

Blooloo wrote: »

.the family doesnt qualify for a mortgage, yet another individual is given a lower cost to buy the same thing through a tax break and no tight lending criteria, to pay not only their own rent, but the costs of the BTL landlord as well.

That's what happens when you restrict lending to the current absurdly tight levels though.

Property consolidates in the hands of the wealthy.

And there are no tax breaks for BTL that are not applicable to any other business, so that part is a straw man argument.

This is financial chicanery of the lowest morality.

No.

We have a lending market that is broadly functional for BTL-ers, but remains broadly dysfunctional for FTB-s.

What is needed is the return of more widespread lending at historically normal, prudent, and sensible levels where a decent credit history and a reasonable job will get you a 95% mortgage at non-punitive margins above base rate without jumping through 3 months of absurd hoops.

It's like having a person with one broken leg. You don't make him better by breaking the other leg....

wotsthat

hpc_troll wrote: »

Sorry, wotsthat, cross-posting with my previous - this then I'm out.

I suppose what I wanted from this thread in particular was to be exposed to different more bullish perspectives and understand what informed them.

You might be better off starting threads about the specifics of credit conditions and the consequent effects. A thread 'have we reached a tipping point?' is always going to be just a bit of fun.

I'm informed by the maths. I'm (almost) guaranteed to own 100% of my own home - house prices go up and they come down - and it won't make a jot of difference.

I've played about with STR calculations in the past. Unless there's a quick correction the maths doesn't work and I'd imagine it's not good for the nerves.

wotsthat

Blooloo wrote: »

You are clearly quite young.

In 1989-1993, I lost friends to suicide when they had previously been apparently extremely successful.

All were self starters, all had the positive attitude to work and life.

I hope it doesnt happen to anyone else...but sadly, over extending debt is a serious problem for many people...its great while you, your market and conditions are in your favour, but they can turn on a dime.

I myself was struck down by a sick driver last year...my plans to expand my business gone in a second.

To carte blanche blame a person for their own misfortune is a sadly overused meme in the self improvers market...rife in the property courses and BMV dealers arena. It is THE driver to get people to part with cash for being "on the inside". Nothing wrong with a bit of greed, but entrepreneurship is not for everybody.

Also, for a person to peak above the average, someone else has to fall behind a bit...that is the very essence of "getting ahead".

Sorry - what's that got to do with me suggesting some hypocrisy because you cheered on the mortgage restrictions and then starting complaining people couldn't get mortgages.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

I see we've got quite a few visitors from HPC in this thread at the moment, so in the event you want to expand the discussion beyond any potential "tipping point", or indeed to debate the underlying causes of UK house prices being where they are....

The link for the debate house prices/economy board, where you are just now, and where all threads on house prices are contained, is here.......

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/forumdisplay.php?f=149


There's a thread on the London housing shortage here.....

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5030798


And the UK wide housing shortage here.....

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5026820

and here....

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5028693


You can discuss the current performance of rents versus house prices, the skew inherent in the ONS rent index, and how these things relate to a housing shortage here......

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5033480


And my personal favourite thread, the one discussing Aberdeen house prices, is here....

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5025761


And of course, in the interest of reciprocity, if any of our more bearish MSE-ers have not yet found HPC, the thread inviting all of them to come over and post can be found, here......

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?/topic/195761-is-prime-london-crashing/page-91


We're a fairly broad church over here on MSE, you won't get banned for being bullish or bearish, you certainly won't get moderated for claiming house prices will rise, and we welcome opposing views.....

:beer: