PCN From LCP - Harefield

harni2013

Update!
I have recently received a letter from LCP with lots of pictures of their signage taken recently, a photocopy of the land registry paperwork, a rejection letter and a POPLA form and code.
Unsurprisingly, they mentioned that i used an internet generic appeal. Funny really as it was heavily changed to my situation and what difference does it make to them? Anyway!

I need to start writing a POPLA appeal but am just wondering what grounds people would suggest would be best to pursue? The main one i think is that the charge is not a realistic loss. They have not provided me with a breakdown of the costs despite me asking for one if they are claiming a breach of contract which they are. Because they have not provided a breakdown of costs, they have not proved that the £100 fine is a genuine estimate of loss.
Secondly, the copy of the land registry extract is dated back to 2003. There is no evidence that this is a recent copy and therefore, i don't see this as being proof of them having the right to form a contract with drivers on this land. How do i know this hasn't been sold between now and 2003?

Any help would be much appreciated with this!

Redx

the links in post #3 of this thread have several suggestions by coupon-mad

here is just one that I looked at https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4979177

bear in mind they are the ones that have to prove their case, all you do is raise the issues

Dee140157

I would be looking for these as points in your appeal
1. Charge not a genuine pre-estimate of loss
2. No Creditor identified on the Notice to Appellant
3. Lack of proprietary interest in the land and no authority to levy charges
4. Lack of contract
5. ANPR Accuracy

harni2013

Ok So far, thanks for everyones help. I've put my appeal in a few weeks back and today received a load of paperwork from LCP with regards to their appeal to POPLA. As expected, they attempted to tear my appeal apart and their biggest gripe was that the appeal was taken from a forum.

"It is blatantly clear **** appeal is copied from the internet. Rather than co-operating with LCP and submitting a case specific appeal to be considered, he has opted to submit a generic appeal in order to protract the matter further. Ultimately, this has cost LCP more than it would in order to consider a straightforward appeal. We are certain POPLA has received numerous of these appeals and trust you will throughly consider all the facts"

So basically, because they have had to submit their generic appeal to this, its cost them more money? Right....

Anyway, they still haven't provided a breakdown of costs to them selves despite being asked so i think the appeal may be allowed under not being a genuine pre estimate of loss. They are suggesting that the £100 charge is justifiable because i "agreed" to the charge and therefore its enforceable. Is this the case? Is there a chance that POPLA may allow the fine to go ahead based on this?

Thanks all!

Redx

there is no "FINE" , there is an alleged invoice that they are trying to justify

its either a gpeol that they are chasing, or a contractual sum

if the gpeol is £100 then they have to justify it in their submissions, including a breakdown of it , but you say they havent done this so you would assume the assessors will uphold your appeal on it being "not a gpeol"

if it were a contractual sum, then that is different but again they would have to justify it and prove you agreed to it

enforceable ? - only a judge can tell you that, in a court of law , but if its not then based on their popla submissions popla would find in your favour same as a judge would

popla will not rule on if it is enforceable or not , they will uphold your appeal or deny it, with a suitable reason , but this may not answer all of your questions, plus they will ignore all other issues except the one they rule on

if you lost, its not enforceable anyway, as only an MCOL is enforceable (if you lost and didnt pay it)

in all cases above, it would not set case law or any precedent if you lost

so the point here is for you to rebut anything they have said with useful rebuttals, not query case law or enforceability and drop the use of the F word as its not a fine nor will it ever be a fine

using the correct terminology is half the battle in this battle of wits, where these parking companies tend to fail miserably in that department

ps:- this other appeal from above was similar https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4979177 and that clearly won as the £100 charge was "thrown out" as not a gpeol - did you read it again ?

harni2013

Sorry don't know why i said fine. I know its not lol.
Ah i haven't read that thread since it was updated with Lynneh winning. Thats good news! Will just have to wait and see now then.

Coupon-mad

harni2013 wrote: »

Ok So far, thanks for everyones help. I've put my appeal in a few weeks back and today received a load of paperwork from LCP with regards to their appeal to POPLA. As expected, they attempted to tear my appeal apart and their biggest gripe was that the appeal was taken from a forum.

"It is blatantly clear **** appeal is copied from the internet. Rather than co-operating with LCP and submitting a case specific appeal to be considered, he has opted to submit a generic appeal in order to protract the matter further. Ultimately, this has cost LCP more than it would in order to consider a straightforward appeal. We are certain POPLA has received numerous of these appeals and trust you will throughly consider all the facts"

So basically, because they have had to submit their generic appeal to this, its cost them more money? Right....

That looks familiar - I think it is a template too! have another read of the cases I posted as links in post #3 as I have definitely read the above rubbish from LCP before.

harni2013 wrote: »

Anyway, they still haven't provided a breakdown of costs to them selves despite being asked so i think the appeal may be allowed under not being a genuine pre estimate of loss. They are suggesting that the £100 charge is justifiable because i "agreed" to the charge and therefore its enforceable. Is this the case? Is there a chance that POPLA may allow the fine to go ahead based on this?

There's always a chance I suppose that POPLA will have a brain fart and miss the point - but if you copy the version posters like lynneh used then you will have the best chance. Also watch out for LCP's (no doubt template!) POPLA evidence pack in due course which you must rebut to get the last word in quickly just before POPLA make their decision.

harni2013

Coupon-mad wrote: »

That looks familiar - I think it is a template too! have another read of the cases I posted as links in post #3 as I have definitely read the above rubbish from LCP before.


There's always a chance I suppose that POPLA will have a brain fart and miss the point - but if you copy the version posters like lynneh used then you will have the best chance. Also watch out for LCP's (no doubt template!) POPLA evidence pack in due course which you must rebut to get the last word in quickly just before POPLA make their decision.

Ive received said pack the other day. What would you recommend replying over? I assume you mean to POPLA as additional evidence?
They have sent me a letter with about 30 pages in it filled with photos, proof from their computer system i haven't paid etc as long as their reply to my appeal.

Dee140157

This is typical of an evidence pack.
The main thing to look at is their breakdown of expenses and point out every thing that should not be in a GPEOL eg business expenses.
Send an email to POPLA with the elements that you dispute and anything else in the evidence pack you can pick holes with.

I am fairly certain C-m picked holes in it for Lynneh, so she may be able to send you the same information.

harni2013

Thats great thanks guys
I will have a proper read over the pack again tonight but one thing i did pick up on is that i am the hirer of the vehicle and they even issued me with a notice to hirer when i told them i was the driver of the car at the time (bad thing to do i know but had to as its a company car and this would of been on the companies plate if i didn't who would of just paid it). I am purely the driver and don't pay a penny nor is the car leased by me. Cant see this making any difference but thought id ask you guys?