TV licensing threats

Cornucopia

Kayak10 wrote: »

...the MP responsible...

Who is.....?

Cornucopia

I was mobile when I posted #468, so let me elaborate...

There is no legislation permitting or instructing the BBC to undertake its letter-writing or door-stepping operations. We know that as a fact, because WOIRA (a Common Law legal solution) is effective. If there was legislation, WOIRA would not work.

I've also devised and validated with TVL a new solution, I call Article 8 Super WOIRA. This uses human rights legislation against TVL and also works. Whilst it is not 100% proof that there is no legislation, I would stake much money on the idea that if there was, the BBC would be very reluctant to accept an HRA-based solution, and would probably place the burden onto the citizen of making a legal challenge to the compatibility of the legislation.

The BBC claim that what they do is permitted as a "between the gaps" activity. ie. there is no law that enables them to do it, and there is no law that prevents them. However, the BBC Trust has already agreed that "home visits" are actually searches by consent, and therefore subject to some specific protections in PACE. The BBC Executive's response to this is still awaited. Anyone who is prosecuted after volunteering access to their premises ought to be protesting if the PACE situation was not explained to them.

The BBC seem to have received legal advice that Article 8 of the Human Rights Act (right to privacy) does not apply as long as consent is requested prior to entering premises. Firstly, I'm not convinced that this is the case. You could not consent to be murdered or to have an unfair trial, so I'm not clear why this would be different. (And if is different, why does no other agency exploit it - especially those charged with enforcing more serious offences than licence fee evasions).

Even if we accept the BBC's argument, their position doesn't really make sense. They claim that consent is what differentiates a lawful and unlawful approach, and yet they don't give their operatives a fixed, legally-approved wording to use, they don't check for compliance with the rules, and we know that TVL operatives do abuse the situation by using deception to gain entry (and on occasion threats or even force).

This is the basis on which I suggest that the regime is unlawful. Or to summarise in one sentence - we don't have door-to-door state inspections in the UK.

It's clear that even if we accept the BBC's special pleading, their regime operates at the margins of the law. As such, we have to question why any organisation that values its relationship with the public would do such a thing. Answers on a postcard to Ms. Doubtfire.

Kayak10

Cornucopia wrote: »

Who is.....?

In answer to your question it was
Sajid Javid - Secretary of State at the DCMS, 4th Floor, 100 Parliament Street, London SW1A 2BQ
that my local MP wrote to
And he passed it to Ms Doubtfire as far as I'm aware

Kayak10

Thought you would all like a laff on here
I wrote to TVL as I KNOW there is a hand held machine that detects tv's and the following is their answer TYPICAL TVL in my view

Thank you for your recent email, which has been recorded under your reference 1-31518763. Please use this number if you wish to contact us again.

Unfortunately, I'm not able to provide you with information about our detection methods, as the information could assist with people evading paying for their TV Licence. Please visit tvlicensing.co.uk/about/foi-administering-the-licence-fee-AB20, for further information about detection.

Thank you for taking the time to contact us.

Cornucopia

Why do you think they are so evasive? If their technology was out there being used, why wouldn't they want to publicise it as widely as possible - surely it would be a great deterrent to evasion?

Kayak10

Cornucopia wrote: »

Why do you think they are so evasive? If their technology was out there being used, why wouldn't they want to publicise it as widely as possible - surely it would be a great deterrent to evasion?

Exactly

I think I may even send it to Ms Doubtfire lol

Sent in reply to TVL

" I really feel that answer is typical of TVL
I'm sure the name of the hand held detector is not on the official secrets act and NOT built specially for TVL
The reason I wanted to know is I'm involved in a thread on moneysaving expert web site and several of the posters INSIST there is no such hand held piece of equipment that CAN detect a TV being used in a property
If you CANT tell me what it's called Can you at least tell me if TVL have such a piece of equipment ?????? "

Cornucopia

This may be of interest....

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/55922/response/164153/attach/4/IR2011006%20TVL%20response%20following%20IR%20final.pdf

I can confirm that TVL has not, to date, used detection evidence in Court.

ie. Detector evidence has never been used in Court.

[Deleted User]

How do you KNOW there is a hand held machine that detects TVs?

Is it because BBC/TVL told you?

They've told me, about a dozen times, that I'm going to my local Magistrates Court, yet I haven't received a single summons :huh:

Cornucopia

Kayak believes that he was caught and prosecuted using such a device.

However, the BBC has stated under FOI that he was not prosecuted using such a device - no one has ever been prosecuted using such a device.

I'm not sure we'll ever prove to his satisfaction that he probably wasn't caught that way, either. In fact, based on our knowledge of TVL it's much more likely that the evidence against him was misplaced or fabricated than obtained from a detector.

Proving it? Probably not possible.

Does it matter? Not really. It's clear that they are not in routine use. The BBC admit as much when they stress that they are associated solely with warrant applications. We know how rare those are, and will soon be able to prove it, too.

(A group of us are sending FOI requests to individual courts asking for disclosure of the number of SW requests. Results so far show the number to be tiny. We're having to do it this way because the BBC refuse to disclose total numbers - childish behaviour on their part)

Kayak10

Bedsit_Bob wrote: »

How do you KNOW there is a hand held machine that detects TVs?

Is it because BBC/TVL told you?

They've told me, about a dozen times, that I'm going to my local Magistrates Court, yet I haven't received a single summons :huh:

Why is it so many on here seem to enjoy taking me to task
The reason I KNOW is because the TVL person had it in his hand and advised me he KNEW I was watching tv As to your other point about going to court Do you think I'm lying ??? :mad: