New parking regulations at home...

Loadsofchildren123

good luck!
Don't forget to do a costs schedule
Also I'd do a skeleton and use this as your cribsheet on the day. It makes it much easier to make your submissions to the judge if you are nervous.
On the day, they go first, you make out your defence and answer their points, they then reply to those, and then if they raise any new issues then you get another chance.
You are not supposed to interrupt them, nor they you - so have with you a blank piece of paper and jot down if they are saying things you want to comment on, and you will then get the chance.

Ralph-y

I am sure that I am OK saying



good luck



from all the forum members ...


Ralph:cool:

Daniel_san

Well, case was Wednesday....and I lost.

Very disappointed, both with the result, obviously, but more so with the feeling the decision was made before I walked into court. The judge asked me questions, but several times I had to apologise and interrupt her, even during her summing up, to correct something she was saying, as she was assuming things, not working from actual evidence. I just came away feeling that I'd fail to be able to make the judge understand my case, or she just wasn't paying attention, or was trying to catch up as she was 35 mins late starting the hearing, and it was only 10:35am!

She said I admitted I shouldn't be parked outside of my own allocated bay, but what I actually said was I knew it wasn't my bay. It was down to me to prove I had the right to park in the communal area of the car park - I argued that the claimant offered no evidence offered to state that I couldn't, and as such, ambiguity in a contract should benefit the party that didn't write it. This was rejected.

I argued the numerous points with regards the contract between MA and PPC being void, as the MA are NOT the land owner. I pointed out who the land owner was, and they were not party to this contract, therefore the PPC had breached the terms of the MA-PPC contract, which states they must operate to IPC CoP, and that CoP states an agreement with the land owner is required to establish the PPC as the claimant. The judge dismissed this - and when summing up, stated that the land owner, and named them, appointed the MA - at which point I said sorry, that's not true at all, where has that information come from? The judge had assumed this! I said the MA was appointed by the RTM company, who had NOT assumed the rights of the land owner. After some fiddling by the judge, this was dismissed anyway.

I always knew the outside of space PCN's weren't a slum dunk in my favour, but it was worth arguing the case that the PPC shouldn't even be operating on the land, as their contract terms override the primacy of contract of leaseholders. I went on the basis that if I failed in my defence, I had my counterclaim, 7 PCN's issued to a vehicle in my own space, trespass, DPA breach etc - the counterclaim was dismissed completely! The judge ruled the contract between MA and PPC was properly implemented, there was no requirement to change the lease to include a new, ongoing, binding agreement to require a permit, therefore there was no trespass and no DPA breach at all. I even included a letter from the directors of the RTM company, AND an email from the MA, stating that my space was exempt from the parking scheme, and would not be patrolled. After pointing both documents to the judge, and her reading them, she asked me where my evidence was that my space was exempt......I was seriously like W T F.....I just showed evidence of this.....and that was immediately dismissed too.

I understand I'll get a letter from the court with instructions on how to pay etc, and I assume that will include information on the ruling, so I will update this thread with that information.

Maybe I just failed to put my case properly, I don't know...

Coupon-mad

Awww no, sounds like the Judge was useless. Which Court?

I am thinking for that money, your case is worth an appeal (costs you about £100). Did she give you permission to appeal or did you not ask? Your case seems to me one that is worthy of an appeal, I have to say.

Might need to get the transcript too, but even that cost is better than just folding and paying seven unfair PCNs at your own home.

Miss Jopson had to overturn a wrong court decision in 2016, and if she hadn't, we would not have had Jopson v Homeguard!

Daniel_san

Basildon court, Essex.

The solicitor for the claimant wanted to explain the appeal procedure to me before we walked into the court, when she introduced herself outside...I said I'd let the judge talk me through it thank you....

The judge explained it right at the start, that it would only be allowed if a point of law had been missed somewhere etc, and said I'd need permission. She didn't give it verbally at any stage, so I wait for the ruling in writing and see exactly what is says.

Yes I'll be looking to get the transcript.

What I have to pay is 4 PCN's for outside of bay.
The 7 own space ones PCN's apparently weren't even a factor of the hearing, it was just for the 4 the claimant was claiming for. I'm not sure I understood it right, but at one point I think it was mentioned that my counter-claim wasn't valid as such, something to do with not being relevant to the claim being made.... I'm hoping that's clarified on the ruling, as it leads me to believe I could make my own claim for those 7 PCN's and THEN the lease comes into play with trespass and DPA. In fact, as I type now, I recall the claimants solicitor saying something along the lines of "If Mr [ME] wants to make a claim for those then he would do so" or something along those lines. At the same time, the judge also ruled there was no need to change the lease and that there was no derogation of grant.

So at this time I don't need to pay the 7, as they haven't done anything beyond send me the NTK and follow up letters, and then 3-4 debt collection letters etc.

Sorry, probably not being as clear as I could be, the whole thing left me a little confused tbh.

Coupon-mad

https://www.miltonkeynes.co.uk/news/milton-keynes-woman-secures-landmark-victory-for-flat-tenants-in-parking-dispute-1-7459066

I would seriously consider doing what Miss Jopson did and get a solicitor firm to help you, like that Aylesbury firm did, especially as you also had a counter claim that she threw out so a lot of money and further harassment of you, rides on this...give it some thought over the weekend. Your case has more riding on it than hers did.

At the same time, the judge also ruled there was no need to change the lease and that there was no derogation of grant.

I'd take issue with that, if it were me, and look for other errors and assumptions she made. Implied easements and rights exist in communal areas (even of not spelt out) and from what you say, she spoke over you throughout and wasn't listening. Hardly a fair trial.

You'd be asking for consent to appeal and you'd need to list the points of law where you fell she erred, that need scrutiny on appeal. To get this right in wording, and what to say (no ranting, no tangents) you could contact bargepole (on this forum or pepipoo) and see if he has time to look over your case and thinks your case still has legs and what he would suggest.

Do not rush to pay the sum...I don't think that assists if appealing the decision, albeit you'd have to move quickly and ask for any enforcement of the CCJ to be put on hold.

I think you need advice but avoid like the plague, anyone except bargepole, (or lamilad but he's not based in the South) or a proper solicitor. Or LoadsofChildren123 if she comments, would be absolutely fine.

Do not reply if you get a pm from anyone else offering to 'help'. name and shame them here, if they try, as some here are not altruistic.

Oh, just remembered, you could apply & cross your fingers to get a barrister (free) from the bar pro bono unit:

https://weareadvocate.org.uk/

I haven't read all the t&cs but I do know if your case fits their criteria they will put it out there for a barrister to pick up...if one can, and they will then contact you. Worth a try for the appeal, act quickly and decide over the weekend.

Daniel_san

Thanks CM, as always, much appreciated. I'll relax for the weekend and wait for the courts letter, see what that says, and go from there.

Coupon-mad

I just added some advice at the end...have a look at the bar pro bono unit t&cs and see if a possible appeal is the sort of case they might assist with, free.

Daniel_san

Thanks for the additional notes CM.

Today I received the letter from the court, and after calling the court on Monday to clarify that the letter would explain the ruling, it's disappointing to find it does nothing to explain the decision, it just says counterclaim dismissed, judgement for claimant, pay up, basically. It doesn't give permission to appeal either...

So now I guess I need a copy of the transcript....which I found is Form EX107, and find out what the cost is, because that isn't on the form anywhere, so there must be a page for that.....

and I need to write a lovely letter to the judge to request permission to appeal the BS ruling...

bargepole

Daniel_san wrote: »

Thanks for the additional notes CM.

Today I received the letter from the court, and after calling the court on Monday to clarify that the letter would explain the ruling, it's disappointing to find it does nothing to explain the decision, it just says counterclaim dismissed, judgement for claimant, pay up, basically. It doesn't give permission to appeal either...

So now I guess I need a copy of the transcript....which I found is Form EX107, and find out what the cost is, because that isn't on the form anywhere, so there must be a page for that.....

and I need to write a lovely letter to the judge to request permission to appeal the BS ruling...

The Judgment Order will not normally give reasons, it will just say who has to pay how much to whom, and by when. Permission to appeal will not be mentioned, unless you asked the Judge at the end of the hearing.

You should get a quote from one of the MoJ-authorised agencies for a copy of the transcript. The fee is calculated according to the number of words, and usually works out around £200 per hour of hearing time. But you really only need the Approved Judgment, normally 15-20 minutes.

You do not write a letter, lovely or otherwise, to the Judge. You have to make an application for permission to appeal, on form N164, within 21 days, and this goes to the Circuit Judge, who may or may not grant permission. The filing fee for that is £120.

Your form should state the Grounds of Appeal, which must be on the basis that the original Judge erred in law, or made a finding of fact which they were not entitled to make on the evidence before them.

CM and I have discussed this off-forum, and my view is that you have very little chance of success. Others may disagree.