ParkingEye/Popla

Ivor_Pecheque

You're involved in a civil dispute, you haven't broken any laws.

Interesting that PE demonstrated that others made payment on the day. In our case, the machines were difficult to read, and indeed, in a dangerous state.

PE sent "Jonty Langhams Whitelist," which, they said, demonstrated that others pain on the day.

As with all the other junk PE sent, if you go through things with a fine tooth comb, all is not what it seems. They had a very amateurish approach to evidence.

If the stress is too much, then pay up, (or, make an offer.) Or you could embrace the fight, I found it all a jolly jest, and the bacon butties in the court canteen were fab.

(We won on a different point though, and the judge did comment, that even if we didn't win on that point he'd find if difficult to believe the £179 claimed was a genuine pre-estimate of loss.)

gertysingh

LOL - secret coded buttons!

Coupon-mad

Moaning Me, I don't think you realise many of us regular posters are middle aged and you are not decrepit, you are only 65! We are all just horribly disappointed to read of someone who managed to lose at POPLA (in our experience that's difficult to achieve and grabbed defeat from the jaws of victory...caused by writing about 'what happened' instead of the right winning appeal words so easily Googled. The POPLA website even tells you that mitigating circumstances is not the way to appeal as they can't consider those...).

But, loads of people win in court and pay nothing and get their costs awarded to them (and it would be YOUR local court and nothing criminal, NOT EVEN A CCJ!). Just a decision as to whether you have to pay or not so why the heck would you pay the full amount now? Read some successes, most weeks people win:

List of PPC Court Cases won by defendants (non-exhaustive) (click on it and read the recent wins!!!)

and look at the cases mentioned here where people won and PE paid THEM!

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4989761

And look at the ages of these ladies, who also won v PE this year:

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-2592294/If-parking-ticket-heres-escape-paying.html

If you REALLY want to send an offer send this as a formal letter in the post, as a separate sheet to your acknowledgement of the LBCCC:



DATE

WITHOUT PREJUDICE SAVE AS TO THE QUESTION OF COSTS

Dear Sirs

PCN NUMBER XXXXXXX CAR REGISTRATION XXXXXXX

I refer to the Letter before County Court Claim, which is disputed. See my separate letter enclosed, acknowledging the LBCCC and requiring further information from you before I can give a formal response.

Having taken advice, I believe that I have a very good prospect of successfully defending this action. I am fully aware that ParkingEye v Beavis is due to go to the Court of Appeal so if you do proceed to Court then I will request a stay of the claim pending the CoA decision. I will also defend the claim robustly.

Nevertheless, it does seem to me to be a waste of everyone's time - not to mention the burden on the court's time and resources - to litigate this matter. Therefore, in the spirit of compromise, I am willing to make an offer of settlement in the sum of [£20...your choice, should be small!].

This offer is made without any admission of liability. POPLA is not binding on me and I am now aware that I only lost because I did not argue points of law. Believe me, I will if you take this matter further.

This offer will remain open for a period of 23 days from the date of this letter (namely 21 days plus two days for service) after which time the offer will be withdrawn. In the event of ParkingEye failing to achieve a judgment in excess of the sum offered in this letter, an application will be made for an order that you pay my wasted costs of defending the action, pursuant to the provisions of CPR 27.14.

I trust this will not be necessary and I look forward to receiving your written acceptance of this offer within the time-scale stipulated in this letter.

Yours faithfully



PRINT NAME




Then separately enclose your initial acknowledgement of the LBCCC (as per this thread) so you are putting two separate letters into one envelope:

Parking - Letter Before County Court Claim (LBCCC) - Fight back! Guidance Thread

HTH, don't just pay - you are not 95 and you don't sound like a pushover!

gertysingh

Great article Coupon-Mad (This is Money) and just answered a question I had about how much do PPC's earn from parking charges. It states:

Councils and private car parking firms are expected to rake in £3  billion this year from motorists looking for a space – much of it from fines and unfair charges.

Wow

Ivor_Pecheque

WHOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAA

play the ball chaps, not the player.

Without wishing to take sides, or trying to read someones mind, the take I had from Redx's post, was that age, disability, breast feeding babies etc etc, just isn't relevant in beating the system.

Ultimately, this isn't about right and wrong, or fairness.It's about knowing the rules, (Although by the time thing get to court, the Judges seem to have a knack of finding on points of law that support the motorist-ask four Judges an opinion on something and you're likely to get opinions !)

Moaning Me, you are dealing with posters on here who are almost evangelical, and know the system to the nth degree. Sometimes this may sometimes come across as a little brash, but you will get very effective and robust advice here.

Redx

Ivor_Pecheque wrote: »

WHOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAA

play the ball chaps, not the player.

Without wishing to take sides, or trying to read someones mind, the take I had from Redx's post, was that age, disability, breast feeding babies etc etc, just isn't relevant in beating the system.

Ultimately, this isn't about right and wrong, or fairness.It's about knowing the rules, (Although by the time thing get to court, the Judges seem to have a knack of finding on points of law that support the motorist-ask four Judges an opinion on something and you're likely to get opinions !)

Moaning Me, you are dealing with posters on here who are almost evangelical, and know the system to the nth degree. Sometimes this may sometimes come across as a little brash, but you will get very effective and robust advice here.

correct

all I can see in moaning minnies last post is rudeness or defamation

I did not bring up ageism

I did not bring up bailiffs

I did not bring up fines

I did not bring up education

I did not bring up the law as no criminal laws were broken , only civil laws that the OP needs to defend (trespass and contracts)

I believe the poster should have posted the facts and asked for help , not dwelt on the shortcomings of the system or ask for special treatment

clearly this OP has not read the forum rules on rudeness and now defamation due to derogatory remarks too; yet complains about others and clearly has an agenda now based on paranoia and has no qualms in breaking the forum rules herself

I deal in facts only and judging by the amount of thanks I get in relation to my replies its clear that those facts come across from those who thanked me

there is always one ungrateful person who cannot tell the difference between rudeness and plain speaking; and who would rather have a moan on a forum instead of taking it up with their MP, or the OFT , or the AA or RAC , or BBC Watchdog or Martin Lewis OBE himself

IT IS UNFORTUNATE THAT BY NOT LEARNING THE RULES OF THIS "GAME" THEY HAVE LET THEMSELVES FALL INTO THIS POSITION AND COULD FALL EVEN FURTHER IF THEY FAIL TO GRASP THE BULL BY THE HORNS AND LEARN THE ROPES

I also find it disgraceful with all this ageism innuendo as it all totally not relevant to any of this topic and I was not the one who brought it up , but I do not like those who seek to use it , neither would I if it was some other sectarian rudeness like racism or sexism which is what it now appears to be , MM seems to think age or gender matter here (it also breaks the forum rules never mind any other laws like defamation and libel), THEY DONT MATTER HERE !

time to get the ball back on the pitch MR or MRS moaning minnie , stick to the facts and stop whingeing , or I may send you an invoice for defamation

bod1467

I have to say, Red ... you've been far more polite and reserved in your responses to MM's diatribes then I could ever be.

Hot_Bring

Moaning_Me wrote: »

Thank you once again for your rude reply.

I never said that the predicament I am in was because I was an OAP. You completely got the wrong end of the stick.

Yes, you are entitled to your own opinion but I don't have to agree with it or accept it.

As I said before people have been very helpful with the information they have given and I am very grateful.

I am sorry that you feel like you do about the way I worded my post but I was not looking for sympathy just information.:mad:

Unfortunately I do not have enough spare time, as it appears you do to research such matters but I am grateful for the assistance I have received. I have also acted on a certain piece of information that was given which has proved to be very very helpful to me.

You certainly have got a bee in your bonnet that has made this last reply even more insulting. What has bus passes, OAP's and disability got to do with anything, or fishing/football etc.

You have gone completely over the top young man it appears anyone can have an opinion as long as it is the same as yours.

As for telling it as it is :

You are a condescending, nasty, sarcastic little man who appears to have a problem with me because I chose not to accept the tone in which your prior post was written.

PS: Did it take a lot of practice to become so awkward and condescending or does it come naturally.

:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

Harsh, wrong and unnecessary. You seem to have forgotten who is helping who here. With that reply, I'm out. You can help yourself.

ColliesCarer

Moaning Me,
I have read your thread from post #1 and IMO you have been given very good well meaning advice albeit some of that was quite direct.

But please try to understand, this forum is manned by a small group of dedicated and very knowledgeable people who give large amounts of their time for free to help people challenge these charges.

They hate to see anyone lose and are on your side but they do not have unlimited time and need to get the messages across quickly - this can be interpreted as being very blunt.

You may not like how some of the messages have come across but to best help you they need you to understand that so far you have approached this issue in a very naive manner.

To stand a chance of winning any future court case should you decide to fight this claim you will need to understand how the system actually operates, which is not the way you think it does or believe it should.

So please don't shoot the messengers - should this proceed to a court case you will need all the help you can get.

So to try to get this back on track
You have received a Letter Before County Court action for a private parking ticket.

It is not a fine - please get that word out of your head as that has a particular legal meaning and should not be used when referring to what is actually just an invoice from someone claiming you owe them money because they are alleging you broke their parking rules.

You dispute their claim but the reasons you have raised are not based on the relevant legal arguments that will be needed to show this claim to be unenforceable and you will need to understand those legal arguments and use them if you wish to fight back.

An LBCCC is the first step in a formal process leading to a county court claim and it needs to be responded to formally and in accordance with the rules of that legal process.

To see how to do that read the LBCCC fightback thread as already advised

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4754020

also have a read of the NEWBIES thread post #5 for information relating to fighting a county court claim. The Pranksters guides recommended to download (cost under £4) are extremely useful in helping to understand the legal arguments for defending a claim.

Moaning_Me

Ivor Pechecque/RedX

Thank you for your post. I agree it is about knowing the rules and the law, unfortunately I did not know either, I did what I thought to be right and it obviously wasn't because I lost the appeal with POPLA.

I have sorted the matter with the help of all the people that posted.

One post asked whether I had gone to the landowner, which I had not, but yesterday I found out who the landowner was and where I could contact them.

They were very helpful and they have contacted ParkingEye, they are hopeful that they can get this sorted for me.

Thank you and all the other posts I received.

RedX - I really don't know what upset you so much in the beginning but unfortunately you appeared to be making a personal attack on me with regard to several things I had written/worded wrongly (in your opinion) this antagonised me and I retaliated.

You will be pleased to know that I will take myself off of this system and will not be returning - as a suggestion perhaps you would please try to bear in mind that when you post your replies, people like myself are asking for help immaterial of age/gender or how they word things.

I wish you well in carrying on your research into finding ways to beat the system and helping others.