Property Information Form missing a LOT of info.

Eejay

Sorry to create a new thread, but I think my other had digressed a fair bit now and this is a separate issue - and a serious one, as far as we are concerned. My husband has emailed his solicitor and is thinking about pulling out tomorrow.

My husband received the Property Information Form from his solicitor today. The vendor (who lives abroad) is keen to get on with the sale (despite wanting to keep his tenants until the last minute, which I understand from the other thread is an issue in itself), but after seeing the state of the form that has been filled in, we're reluctant to go any further based on that alone.

The information sent through included an email from the EA to the vendor's solicitor saying that "The client asked us to complete the Property Information Form for him as he has no knowledge of the property." They used their own 'property inspector' to fill in the information which is "completed to the best of [his] knowledge", but some of the information missing is so obvious it's unreal (e.g. 11.1).

There's also a copy of the "Landlord/Home Owner Gas Safety Record" where the 'landlord' is listed as a different person (same surname, so presumably a relative).

I will list the questions that have not been answered (obviously some don't need answering if the answer to a previous section was 'no', so I'll only include them if the relevant sections were not completed either) - if you Google "Property Information Form - The Law Society" then you can see the details of each one.

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Page 3 and 4 missing (it's a photocopy, so the original may have included these pages).

4. Alterations, planning and building control.
4.1 a, b, c, d
4.2 a, b
4.3
4.4
4.5
(4.6 and 4.7 answered)

Page 7 missing.

5. Guarantees and warranties (continued)
5.1 g, h, i
5.2

6. Insurance
6.1
6.2 a, b, c, d
6.3

7. Environmental matters
7.1
7.2
7.3
7.4
7.5
7.6
7.7
7.8

8. Rights and informal arrangements
8.1
8.2
8.3
8.4 a, b, c, d, e, f
8.5
(8.6 and 8.7 answered)
8.8

9. Parking
(9.1 and 9.2 answered)

10. Other charges
10.1

11. Occupiers
11.1 ("Does the seller live at the property?" Er, no, but it's blank anyway)
11.2

Page 13 missing (unlucky for some).

12. Services (continued)
12.3 b, d (a and c answered)
12.4
12.5
12.6
12.7
12.8
12.9
12.10

13. Connection to utilities and services
(half filled in, no details of providers but states where each meter is)

14. Transaction information
14.1
14.2
14.3
14.4 a, b, c, d

No signatures.

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What would you do?

tigsly

Id ask for the form to be completed and returned asap..

we only had even numbered sides -it was 'someone's ' photocopying error - everyone blamed everyone else?

Officer_Dibble

It depends how much you want the house.

A lot of the info requested on the form is pretty pointless/meaningless. Work out which questions would make or break the sale and make sure you get answers to those.

anselld

You are not involved. Ask your husband to deal with it!

Eejay

Thanks, he's emailed the EA now and said he wants more answers before he commits to anything more. There's a lot of really important information missing - some of it is not as important, but it seems it'd be a huge risk to pursue it when there are so few answers.

anselld wrote: »

You are not involved. Ask your husband to deal with it!

Thank you for this useful post. Asking for a bit of advice on a forum is significantly different to dealing with the 'formal' side of things, but clearly some people are incapable of understanding that.

Annie1960

Officer_Dibble wrote: »

It depends how much you want the house.

A lot of the info requested on the form is pretty pointless/meaningless. Work out which questions would make or break the sale and make sure you get answers to those.

I agree with this.

Some years ago, I was involved in selling a probate property. The questionnaire we had to fill in was nowhere near as detailed as the modern ones, but nonetheless I just did not know the answers to many of the questions because I did not know the house very well, and it was a couple of hundred miles from where I live.

People have been buying houses for centuries without asking all these questions. Just make sure you get a good survey done, and get gas and electrics checked if there are no certs. It is probably also worth making sure there is proper planning consent if there has been any extension.

So, as above, work out what the really important questions are, and get answers to them.

Be aware that probably none of these questions is as important as getting the tenants out before you spend any money on it. The whole thing could fall through if they decide they want to stay there.

Eejay

Annie1960 wrote: »

I agree with this.

Some years ago, I was involved in selling a probate property. The questionnaire we had to fill in was nowhere near as detailed as the modern ones, but nonetheless I just did not know the answers to many of the questions because I did not know the house very well, and it was a couple of hundred miles from where I live.

People have been buying houses for centuries without asking all these questions. Just make sure you get a good survey done, and get gas and electrics checked if there are no certs. It is probably also worth making sure there is proper planning consent if there has been any extension.

So, as above, work out what the really important questions are, and get answers to them.

Be aware that probably none of these questions is as important as getting the tenants out before you spend any money on it. The whole thing could fall through if they decide they want to stay there.

'Not known' was an option for some of the questions, but others that could easily have been answered were just left blank anyway. There is no information regarding building insurance for example, but surely as a landlord he must have something in place? The EA is also the LA, and they were the people who filled this form in so I'm sure they could have provided more information (even if only a little) than they've given. I'm not so fussed about some of the more 'minor' questions but I feel like they've wasted their time sending such poorly filled in documents. The vendor is so keen on the sale going through as soon as possible, but not keen on providing any information at all - there's no additional paperwork about anything. When my husband submitted paperwork for the property he is selling, there was an inch thick pile - it's a flat so I can understand some difference, but a printed email, a gas safety record and a couple of semi-filled documents is poor.

There is supposed to be a section about who lives in the property, and whether it will be sold with vacant possession, but this page wasn't even included in what we were sent. I really appreciate your advice on the tenants because the EA seems to think this is perfectly normal and we naively accepted what they were saying. Thanks to you (and a couple of other forum members) we've realised it's not a good idea at all! They've said that they won't discuss the vendor serving notice to the tenants until we're further on with things, but that means they expect us to pay for searches (obviously this money is with the solicitor already) and maybe the surveys before asking any more about it. That's a lot of money to be spending (especially if, like he says, he doesn't have any additional information about the property as we'll probably have no option but to get a full survey done) when it could all be messed up down the line.

It would have been more encouraging if someone had bothered to sign the paperwork too. It's like nobody wants to accept any responsibility for anything, but they're pressuring us to start spending money as soon as possible at this end. I like the house, but I'm having to persuade my husband to wait until tomorrow before pulling out - he wants to let them know right away but I said he should speak to the EA first so that we know we're definitely making the right decision.

G_M

Decide how many of the questions actually matter to you. And how much they matter. Ignore all other questions. If there are Qs that are critical, then either
* press for answers and threaten to withdraw or
* find the answers yourself (eg planning permission/Building Regs from council)

Be prepared to get zero back again and decide what you will then do.

But I'd be more worried about the tenants. Stop all activity that costs you money till the tenants are out. Inform the vendore you are doing this.

Yorkie1

I suspect that if the form hasn't been signed by the seller, it won't hold water if there's stuff on there which is wrong and you need to take action subsequently.

The EA doesn't act on your behalf or in your interest. Neither is s/he a party to the contract. Therefore unlikely to have any standing in law to complete the forms on the seller's behalf (unless there's a Power of Attorney in place).

Ask your solicitor what their view is generally, and which parts of the form are essential - from your perspective, but also whether any of them might affect the lender's decision on any mortgage you may require.

Edit: I agree about the tenants issue.

Annie1960

Eejay wrote: »

The EA is also the LA,

So they want to keep getting the fees from the rental - this is a direct conflict of interest with your wish to have vacant posesion.

The vendor is so keen on the sale going through as soon as possible, but not keen on providing any information at all

They can't have it both ways. If they want to sell they have to get the tenants out first. They are attempting to transfer their business risk to your family, and you could get stuck with paying for a mortgage you cannot live in for nine months because you are going through the courts to get the tenants out.


There is supposed to be a section about who lives in the property, and whether it will be sold with vacant possession, but this page wasn't even included in what we were sent.

Why does this not surprise me?

I really appreciate your advice on the tenants because the EA seems to think this is perfectly normal and we naively accepted what they were saying.

There is a conflict of interest here as they and the vendor both want to squeeze every last penny from the rental income. Don't believe them.

Thanks to you (and a couple of other forum members) we've realised it's not a good idea at all!

I'm relieved!

They've said that they won't discuss the vendor serving notice to the tenants until we're further on with things, but that means they expect us to pay for searches (obviously this money is with the solicitor already) and maybe the surveys before asking any more about it.



It would have been more encouraging if someone had bothered to sign the paperwork too. It's like nobody wants to accept any responsibility for anything, but they're pressuring us to start spending money as soon as possible at this end. I like the house, but I'm having to persuade my husband to wait until tomorrow before pulling out -

There is one more thing you can do before deciding to pull out. Make an appointment to see your solicitor, go and see her/him face-to-face (you have got a real, independent, solicitor, haven't you? Not one recommended by the EA? And not some conveyancer based in a call centre somewhere inaccessible?

Go and see solicitor and discuss with them. The solicitor should write a letter to the vendor's solicitor explaining that you will not go any further until there is vacant possession and the relevant papers have been completed and signed by the vendor.

The vendor is going to find it difficult to sell to anyone else if they continue behaving in this manner.

I_have_spoken

Yep, at the end of the day it comes down unfixable/expensive issues -

- getting a sensible price
- planned building work on area
- vacant possession, 'professional' tenants could stay on for 6 months easy beyond end date of AST
- location, location, location,
- any legal disputes/notified problems with neighbours
- results of thorough survey

PIF, guarantees, certificates, etc are usually worthless