Used Nissan Leafs for £10k - worth it?

Ectophile

[quote=[Deleted User];65768230]I was assuming spending £14 a month on electricity instead of £140 on fuel, also no road tax, and £160 a year annual service.
[/QUOTE]

£140/month seems an awful lot of fuel for just pootling around town. You must be doing an awful lot of short journeys.

AdrianC

[quote=[Deleted User];65768230]I was assuming spending £14 a month on electricity instead of £140 on fuel, also no road tax[/QUOTE]
I'm not sure you're comparing apples with apples here.

Let's take a "normal" alternative. Quick look on Autotrader, and there's a wide choice of 2013 petrol Focuses (you don't want Diesel as an alternative to electric - DPF...) for £10k. 48mpg average official = 12.6p/mile fuel. So £140/month is going to be 1100 miles.

For round numbers, let's go with 14p/kwh, so £14/month on electricity is 100 kwh. 24kwh battery, so ~4 charges - at an official 75 mile range - I make that 300 miles.

So to compare apples with apples, you're either comparing £51 of electricity with £140 of petrol or £38 of petrol with £14 of electricity.

Oooh - £130 VED for the year... Compared to the depreciation, peanuts. Less than two months battery lease.

Wig

Why does nextgreencar.co,uk say the leaf goes officially 130miles?

it also says 162 mpg equivalent So £140 petrol would be about £35 electricity

And why does NGC say the price is £25,000
When Nissan web site says the price is £16,000 ?

I think -if it isn't the case already- that Europe needs to put legislation inplace that sets a standard for re-charging points, that all recharging points must be the same, that they all have the same plug, the same options of charging cycles. So that all electric cars can all use all the publicly available charging points.

My concern at the moment for buying an electric car would be being unable to charge my car at a charging station which is only designed for a single manufacturer.

teabelly

Official EPA range is 73 miles. That is a good indication as it is mixed driving.

Price differences often include the £5k electric car grant which is ending next year. So it's really 21k but you take off the grant...

Nissan are on about offering a 48 kw battery pack which would double the range. If they did that they'd actually have a useful car not a brick.

There are incompatible charging sockets and different charging networks to deal with. Someone from one of the major EV sites missed a tour round the alps because of stupidities with charging. If someone that has one of these and writes about them and thinks they are good is kyboshed by such idiocy then it is time to sort it out. There are about 3 different charging socket styles but several charging networks so most EV owners have several RFID cards so they can hook up to them. Most owners also have adapters so they can use at least two sorts.

I think the point with the leaf is that it comes with a standard 13 point lead as well so you can charge at any normal electric socket (but it takes ages).

The Polar network was also free to use. Now it has been slapped with huge charges.

http://transportevolved.com/2014/03/06/chargemaster-unveils-multiple-uk-tariffs-for-electric-car-charging-we-explain-all/

Wig

The NGC website says

With this accelerated development, the price of electric cars is also falling. Although they remain more expensive than conventional cars, some new electric models such as the Nissan LEAF are now priced at around £25,000, supported by the new Plug-in Car Grant worth up to £5,000 is available for the purchase of selected new electric vehicles in the UK..... "Price inc grant £25000"...

"price inc Grant" is also very ambiguous, it's not clear if they mean before grant or after grant is deducted.

It 's just that they have not updated their website in over a year, and it means that new price of the leaf has dropped a lot in a year. Dropped by at least £3000.

I think I won't use next green car website to get my information.

Did you mean "13 Amp lead"

It's a pity the 5000 grant is ending, just as I am becoming interested. I guess I'll comeback in 10 years and see what's happened in the meantime.

Also the ferry companies and eurotunnel should get onboard and offer free charging during the crossings.

AdrianC

Wig wrote: »

The NGC website says
"price inc Grant" is also very ambiguous, it's not clear if they mean before grant or after grant is deducted.

Seems clear that it means "This is what you pay including the effect of the grant"

It 's just that they have not updated their website in over a year, and it means that new price of the leaf has dropped a lot in a year. Dropped by at least £3000.

Given that the Leaf is available with several battery pricing models, I wonder if there's a direct comparison being made.

teabelly

http://www.nissan.co.uk/GB/en/vehicle/electric-vehicles/leaf/prices-and-equipment/how-to-buy-my-leaf.html

Batteries seem to be valued at £5k. Leasing is cheaper if you don't plan to keep the car for more than a few years. Nissan have changed the 100,000 8 year battery warranty and replaced it with a 60k 5 year one. Batteries have to lose 30% capacity before they'll replace them.

AdrianC

teabelly wrote: »

Nissan have changed the 100,000 8 year battery warranty and replaced it with a 60k 5 year one. Batteries have to lose 30% capacity before they'll replace them.

So, in other words, Nissan are accepting that that point will be reached somewhere around 60-100k miles, 5-8yrs.

I wonder how much a replacement battery pack will be?

teabelly

AdrianC wrote: »

So, in other words, Nissan are accepting that that point will be reached somewhere around 60-100k miles, 5-8yrs.

I wonder how much a replacement battery pack will be?

More than the car will be worth I'd imagine....

If you lease they replace them at any age but I don't know whether there is an upper age limit on the battery lease.

I'd assume battery packs would be £4-5k as that is the initial up front cost and similar to £840 a year for 5 years to lease them. If you lease then they're replaced FOC.

The battery lease divided by the 7500 mileage allowance means 11p a mile before purchase costs are included. Then add another 2p a mile for Nissan's running costs on actual electricity used.

[Deleted User]

I've looked at battery leasing for both the leaf and the zoe, and don't see the point - you pay £70/month for 7500 miles a year - basically a tank of fuel per month. It's just a marketing ploy to tempt people who want an electric car to brag about, but are put off by the up front cost and fear of battery failure.

The used leafs I've seen in autotrader for 10-11k don't have a battery lease, so nothing more to pay.

AdrianC, I've had a close look at the figures again. My calculation was based on electricity being 10% of the cost of fuel, but looking at my current spend of £140 a month on diesel (a lot of short trips), and the claim by Nissan that it never costs more than £2 to fully charge the leaf from your home. So 800 miles/month = £140 in diesel, or £21 in electricity. Of course you can get free charging at various places, but how long will this last?

The above calculation is based on my current thirsty diesel, so I'd estimate the leaf against the best the mpg's you can get would be £21 vs £100 - so an £80 saving.