Used Nissan Leafs for £10k - worth it?

Guinness-Cat

I got a 18month PCP deal on a ex-demo leaf almost exactly 1 year ago - for me too, the finances added up, and whilst I haven't saved much money, I have been driving an almost brand new car for the same cost as my old 15year old diesel.

Totally agree about the current leasing model being pointless. I think it's mainly there to stop people worrying about battery degradation which in this climate is a non-issue.

I drive 15000 a year - do have saved about 2000 in diesel, and probably spent about £300 in electric instead. Other savings included road tax (200+ Per year) + Mot's and maintenance, and roadside cover (had been ~500 per year on my old diesel). My PCP cost was 3000 per year.

Generally, if driven carefully, I get between 4-5 miles per KWh (10p on my current electricity play). You won't get this if your doing 80 on the Motorway though.

My deal is due to run out at the end of the year, and I'll definitely be getting another Electric car (probably another leaf) - but unsure whether to get another one on PCP or buy an older one outright as you are looking at. The main worry with this is potential repair costs:

Because the first batch of leafs are just coming out of their standard warentee, there are very few independent garages with any experience of doing any work on them and this may cause issues.

Whilst they are reliable, there are some parts which may fail which should be easily and cheaply replaceable (e.g. charging units and brake sensors) - but because all this has been done under warentee so far we don't know how much it will cost not under warentee. When the dealers have been asked how much it would have costed if the car wasn't covered they have quoted astronomical figures.

The advantages of the earlier models (apart from price) is the lighter interior which some prefer, and the fact that they are Japanese built. As a previous poster inferred, workers over here appear to have little pride in their product.

nobbysn*ts

[quote=[Deleted User];65768230]I was assuming spending £14 a month on electricity instead of £140 on fuel, also no road tax, and £160 a year annual service.

Nissan claim a maximum of 30% battery depletion over 10 years, which still leaves a 50 mile range.

The modular battery system shouldn't all fail at once, and I can only think of two ways to wreck a battery: mis-charging, and extremes of temperature. There are many more ways to wreck a combustion engine: timing belt fail, fuel contamination, major oil leak,... Both would be a probable write off, so not too worried about battery replacement cost.[/QUOTE]

The batteries wear out, Any rechargeable battery will always lose capacity with charging/discharging cycles, In fact if all the batteries are of equal, good quality, they should all lose capacity at an equal rate, and therefore should all fail at once, but slowly, over time, and not catastrophically.

Guinness-Cat

forgotmyname wrote: »

Slight flaw in your 50 mile range being good after a 30% battery drop they barely did that with new batteries.

The tests are done with no heater or aircon or lights etc etc etc.

If you do 10 miles or less into a City and back again then it may save you money on the congestion charges. Otherwise buy a real car.

50 mile range appears fairly accurate with a 30% drop to me. My round trip is 55 miles and I normally get home with about 25 miles range left. I drive at the speed limits (mainly A Roads) and don't economise on air-con use although I don't use the heater too much in winter (set it to pre-heat before I leave the house and find it fine for most the the journey).

What is your definition of a real car - a petrol V8?

Guinness-Cat

nobbysn*ts wrote: »

The batteries wear out, Any rechargeable battery will always lose capacity with charging/discharging cycles, In fact if all the batteries are of equal, good quality, they should all lose capacity at an equal rate, and therefore should all fail at once, but slowly, over time, and not catastrophically.

Yes - this should happen but doesn't always. The point is that there are 48 battery packs in a nissan leaf, and if a few fail prematurely, they can be replaced individually. to get the overall battery back to how it should be.

BeenThroughItAll

Guinness-Cat wrote: »

What is your definition of a real car - a petrol V8?

Yep, preferably an old one which will cost next to nothing, and which doesn't come with the associated manufacturing CO2 impact of a new vehicle, or a whole bunch of batteries.

AdrianC

[quote=[Deleted User];65823924]My calculation was based on electricity being 10% of the cost of fuel[/quote]

Where did you get that figure from?

but looking at my current spend of £140 a month on diesel (a lot of short trips)

Mileage? If that's for the 800 miles you give, then - at £1.40/litre - that's 100 litres. 36mpg.

and the claim by Nissan that it never costs more than £2 to fully charge the leaf from your home.

Demonstrably false. £2 for 24kwh is just over 8p/kwh. Good luck with that. Nearer twice that is more appropriate.

So 800 miles/month = £140 in diesel, or £21 in electricity.

Using the EPA 75 mile range, and a bit under £4/charge, then try £40.

The above calculation is based on my current thirsty diesel, so I'd estimate the leaf against the best the mpg's you can get would be £21 vs £100 - so an £80 saving.

£100 for 800 miles is 50mpg. I get a _genuine_ 45mpg from a PETROL Pug 205 1.1

Guinness-Cat

AdrianC wrote: »

Demonstrably false. £2 for 24kwh is just over 8p/kwh. Good luck with that. Nearer twice that is more appropriate.

The car doesn't let you use the whole 24kwh pack. You can't use more than about 20 without the car going into limp mode. 10p per KWh is achievable which would be £2.

There is also some loss in the charging system - but it's not too much. When I got the car I used to monitor this, and the charger never used more that 15KWh's even on days where I had got the low Battery warning light on on the car.

[Deleted User]

The 10% figure was the number being bandied around at the time the Leaf's came out.

Still an £80 pound a month saving that you conclude is still a significant saving, that's £960 a year. If you don't need it for long trips, or have a second car then I think it's worth taking a punt on. It can't cost £960 annually in maintenance can it?

forgotmyname

Tax exempt V8 Range Rover works for me. Although insurance has gone up over the past few years. Its now a mind blowing £120 a year comp with agreed value etc etc.

I was tempted to strap a couple of turbo's on it, But convinced not to by a club member. Said it will be worth more standard.

JohnJLewis

teabelly wrote: »

You can get 2014 ones from £11k so there is no point buying an old model for £10k...Have a look on autotrader at the new/nearly new offers.

Plus if you buy it new you get a free charger as well.

The newer ones have much better heaters/AC so they don't kill the range anywhere near as the original model.

If you lease the battery for £70 a month then you get the lifetime warranty.

But if you want a small car then the VW up! at £99 a month is a total no brainer in comparison. No limits on range either.

EVs only make sense if you commute into London and are therefore saving the £11 a day congestion charge. If you live elsewhere they're just a waste of money.

There are cheap Leafs for sale like http://www.gumtree.com/p/cars-vans-motorbikes/nissan-leaf-5dr-auto-10/1077670339#photo-content

but how does it work buying one off someone who leases the battery? So you take over the lease?

how does it work when you notice the range getting less and you ask nissan for a new battery at what point do they replace it, if its still working but on its last legs at what point do they give you a new one for your £50mnth.