Sharing/conflict resolution at nursery school?

notanewuser

Nicki wrote: »

Because this part of the prospectus for the school isn't clear that there will be daily religious worship? Or because they will have been too apathetic to read it?



The fact it doesn't spell out that they say grace at lunch and a prayer at home time doesn't mean that they don't make crystal clear to all parents that there is some religious "practise" over and above the national curriculum on a daily basis, from which parents can choose to withdraw their children.

Well, for us it was a surprise, because we're only told about assemblies, and that we can withdraw children from assemblies. How were meant to gather from those clear statements that there is more is beyond me. In fact, it wasn't until I asked about it that the nursery teacher even remembered the grace mentioning god, and the head tried to tell me it didn't until I mentioned that the nursery teacher had recited it and it clearly did. So they aren't immediately up front about it when asked!

It's a big difference to us excluding DD from activities 3 times a day rather than just the first morning one.

System

I think I'm one of the few people who doesn't see prayers and assemblies as such a big deal

We had them back when I was at school (I remember in infants saying "we fold our hands and softly say, thank you for this food to day, amen" )

And singing religious songs in assembly

Has it had any effect on me? Was I indoctrinated? No and no

It never meant anything to me then and doesn't mean anyhongb to me now

notanewuser

xXMessedUpXx wrote: »

I think I'm one of the few people who doesn't see prayers and assemblies as such a big deal

We had them back when I was at school (I remember in infants saying "we fold our hands and softly say, thank you for this food to day, amen" )

And singing religious songs in assembly

Has it had any effect on me? Was I indoctrinated? No and no

It never meant anything to me then and doesn't mean anyhongb to me now

So what was the point?

daisiegg

notanewuser wrote: »

So what was the point?

If you expect everything your daughter experiences at school (and then college/uni/the workplace/any institution she is going to be a part of) to have a 'point' that you recognise (beyond 'those are the rules, it's the way it's always been done, it does no harm and presumably some people even like it') then you are going to be sorely disappointed. As a teacher I quite frequently find myself having to trot out 'because it's the rules' as answer to a whined 'but what's the point?' about various aspects of the school day/procedures from my students. Sometimes even I can't see much point beyond that answer in certain things. But then, there are aspects of mine and probably everyone's working life that I can't see much 'point' in either, but that's just life. No harm in getting used to it when you are young!

For what it is worth, despite being Catholic in name myself, I agree with your opinion and I can't see why there would be prayers in a non religious state school. I actually didn't realise there were. However, I think in your position I'd be happy enough with 'it's the way it is and it causes no harm' and making sure that I was on top of my child's religious/philosophical development outside of school (which I've absolutely no doubt you will be). I'd be letting my child be present but not participate - I know you have said this was not presented as a option, but I would suspect that is only because they felt it would not be satisfactory to you. I would imagine that if you say 'can she stay in the room but just not move her lips when they say grace' that would be fine.

I do think perhaps you are building these moments of the day up to be something bigger than they are. I bet the grace and going home prayers are mere seconds of children chanting something they have little or no comprehension of and forget about five minutes later when they get their lunch or rush through the school gates to mum! Again I'm sure you are thinking 'I don't care if it is seconds and it does no harm - what's the point?!' but as I said earlier, it is no bad thing to start to learn early that all through her school life there will be things you can't see the point of, but which do no harm and are just 'the way it is'. As many others have said, unless plenty of people are objecting there is not much you can do to change 'the way it is'. The fact is, it seems others are just not that bothered - even if they don't know the extent of the religious aspects of the day, they can't be as fussed as you are, or they would have asked, like you did.

I don't have children yet (in a few months!) but I can imagine it is really hard sending your child off to school for the first time, and accepting that she is going to be in an environment that is out of your control. I bet I will feel concerned about various things too when it comes to sending my daughter to school, and will find it really difficult. I think it is important to try and keep some perspective, though, and remember that she will be at school for maybe 6/7 hours a day Monday to Friday, something like 36 weeks ish a year, and it is something you think is important, presumably for social reasons otherwise you would homeschool. She is with you for a larger proportion of the time so you do still have loads of control over how she is developing, what she is exposed to, and lots of opportunity to have conversations about all sorts of things, religion included.

Person_one

daisiegg wrote: »

If you expect everything your daughter experiences at school (and then college/uni/the workplace/any institution she is going to be a part of) to have a 'point' that you recognise (beyond 'those are the rules, it's the way it's always been done, it does no harm and presumably some people even like it') then you are going to be sorely disappointed. As a teacher I quite frequently find myself having to trot out 'because it's the rules' as answer to a whined 'but what's the point?' about various aspects of the school day/procedures from my students. Sometimes even I can't see much point beyond that answer in certain things. But then, there are aspects of mine and probably everyone's working life that I can't see much 'point' in either, but that's just life. No harm in getting used to it when you are young!

You know, this bugged me all through my school days, and it still does when I think back. I think this culture needs to change, because in every other workplace, especially one where you are responsible for other people's wellbeing and safety, you need to have a very clear rationale for and evidence behind absolutely everything.

The answer to 'Why?' should never be 'because I say so, because that's just how its done, because be quiet and get on with it.'

whodathunkit

Mojisola wrote: »

The main problem with keeping out children of assembly is that a lot of school notices are given out and whole school issues are talked about. Any children who are withdrawn are going to miss out on information that everyone else is given.

Surely the "withdrawn " children would come in for the notices like the Jewish and Catholic girls did when I was at school?

balletshoes

notanewuser wrote: »

Not sure, but it's what they do in Scotland perfectly happily. (I assume it's done each year based on overall majority.)

In DD's case now, it's not a statutory requirement anyway. So they could easily drop it, as it's not something parents could reasonably expect for nursery children.

I have to say, I don't really know where you've got that idea about Scottish education either NANU.

balletshoes

Nicki wrote: »

It's only stigmatising or an issue though because yours is such a minority opinion onlyroz. If a third or half the class weren't going to assembly and missing prayers then your kids wouldn't feel odd and it wouldn't be an issue of respecting or not respecting the teachers, just a choice some parents make for their children. The fact that most parents don't make that choice however suggests that either you need to canvass parents in your children's class and get a sizeable chunk to opt out or if you can't achieve that accept that most parents think their children benefit from this part of the day.

If enough parents kept their children out school notices would be given in the opt out rooms as well as the assembly.

neither of my daughter's schools here have daily assembly, they have weekly assembly (with no religious presence/content). Notices are given out in class by the class teachers or the head teacher/management team (current school).

balletshoes

Person_one wrote: »

You know, this bugged me all through my school days, and it still does when I think back.
I think this culture needs to change, because in every other workplace, especially one where you are responsible for other people's wellbeing and safety, you need to have a very clear rationale for and evidence behind absolutely everything.

The answer to 'Why?' should never be 'because I say so, because that's just how its done, because be quiet and get on with it.'

you don't work in the civil service do you ?

notanewuser

daisiegg wrote: »

I don't have children yet (in a few months!) but I can imagine it is really hard sending your child off to school for the first time, and accepting that she is going to be in an environment that is out of your control. I bet I will feel concerned about various things too when it comes to sending my daughter to school, and will find it really difficult. I think it is important to try and keep some perspective, though, and remember that she will be at school for maybe 6/7 hours a day Monday to Friday, something like 36 weeks ish a year, and it is something you think is important, presumably for social reasons otherwise you would homeschool. She is with you for a larger proportion of the time so you do still have loads of control over how she is developing, what she is exposed to, and lots of opportunity to have conversations about all sorts of things, religion included.

It is hard, especially because she's so little. I believe very strongly in the Scandinavian education model (no formal lessons until 7, learning through play etc). The ONLY reason she's going to school now is to give her the opportunity to learn welsh while its easiest for her. She has a fantastic social circle, which will no doubt grow, and the foundation for welsh via the playgroup she's been attending part time for the last year and a bit. Welsh immersion is the only thing we can't do for her outside school.