Landlord threatening to withhold deposit due to damp

PensionTech

1 Were you advised by the landlord to ventilate the flat at least once per day.

No.

2 Can landlord prove that the mould was not present prior to the start of your tenancy.

Yes (it's not mentioned on the inventory from when we moved in).

3 Have you checked that this is not rising damp, caused by faulty damp proof course or poor pointing

It does seem like condensation as it's on external walls behind furniture, although as I've mentioned, there is that odd exclusion zone in the middle of a patch of mould that looks like some damp has been blocked from coming in due to a power socket or something on the other side of the wall.

4 What are the landlords qualifications in identifying the causation of damp.

None as far as I know!

5 Have you the name and address of previous tenants so that you can find out if they suffered similar problems.

No.

6 Did the landlord or his agent carry out any inspections of the property, how often and on what dates.

No - he saw it once, yesterday, to inspect our report, but we have been there for more than a year.

There is nothing wrong with opening windows, which is standard advice.

Which we have, regularly. Have we "fully replaced" the air in the flat "more than once a day during winter"? No. Should we have been aware that this was a requirement? It's not been needed in any other property that my boyfriend or I have ever lived in.

In your shoes I would call the local council and get them to come and inspect the flat and identify the cause of the damp and mould.

We've filled out a questionnaire for the local EHO and are waiting to see what they're going to do about it. Honestly, from what I can find out, I think they would probably say that the cause is condensation.

If the OP has acted in a tenant like manner and done everything that could reasonably be expected of them and did not have this problem in previously rented properties (ie their life style has not changed), then it seems likely that this is a property that is 'prone' to dampness. As such, my personal opinion is that 1) other tenants may have experienced the same problems and 2) the landlord should have made the tenants 'aware' that this property was 'prone' to dampness/condensation problems and suggested ways to combat it.

Well, that's what I thought, hence why I asked the question. I've looked at plenty of articles and case law etc. (including the "tenant-like manner" stuff and the article to which you've linked) but am getting varying responses. I really just want to know whether we are at fault. The fact that our living in the house caused the mould is, I think, beyond doubt - but I didn't think it seemed fair to be held liable for damage if we had just been living in the flat in a normal way.

Still. I'll take each side on board.

antonia1

Hi,


I have just moved out of a flat with similar problems, though ours was mould around the windows so we noticed early on. Long story short - the letting agent blamed us, despite the fact that we informed them of the problem, found that the previous tenant and upstairs neighbours both had the same problem, and we were following their "fact sheet for tenants" advice on the issue. We complained to Environmental Health and promptly received a Section 21 eviction notice.


When we left I cleaned it all with bleach (strong bleach cos the 10:1 dilution suggested didn't work) and the marks are all gone. So we got our deposit back (minus an "exit fee" - I've never heard of these until they returned our deposit £80 short).


My thoughts (after months of stressing) are that for some (though not all) properties damp due to condensation must be a wear and tear thing, and that (in theory) as long as you were taking reasonable care (as you have mentioned you were) then it should be the landlord's responsibility to cover the costs. I doubt you'll get very far with that tho, as my research suggested that this has been a cause of dispute for some years and I wasn't able to find a definitive answer.

Mat_Lock

Similar issues to me except we are still living in the flat.

We have finally had the building owners prove to the landlord that the issue is damp and not us creating a mould situation as the pointing and damp proof is not working externally. We have mould in several areas of bedroom 1 and a white bubbly substance which has been found out to be salt from the brickwork, the damp is coming in from the exterior and creating a mould heaven.

We always have the double glazed windows with the flap open and the windows ajar in a secondary lock position (not something I really like doing as we're ground floor)

There is no extractor fan in the bathroom and we have the window open permanently. Yet it still causes all sorts of issues.

We had an ant infestation a few weeks ago and I used powder all around the base of the building, there were sooo many holes, cracks and gaps in the exterior wall it's no wonder the ants were getting in.

We also are now seeing black mould around some of the electrical sockets in the living room and a trail of damp patches underneath one of the window sills.

The whole exterior side of the flat is leaking like a sieve.

I've had contact with the landlord every other day asking when the issue will be fixed and he keeps saying the building owners are booked to do the work, twice they have missed the dates given and stilll waiting now.

There is no way we are losing our deposit for this. Landlord is helpful but at end of the day it's his house that is falling apart.

Pics of flat...

Exterior:




Bedroom:





Lounge:

silk_2

I'm a landlord who lived in her house for seven years without any damp. Then I left. I had a tenant just move out after three years, and damp has been reported in two places. But the EA is suggesting this won't be a tenant issue.

I can only assume tenant has been somehow causing condensation. Not sure what to do if I don't have EA on my side? The tenant only put one months deposit down anyway (£450), which won't cover this on top of the other damage she left (like a hole in the &*!& wall).

Annie1960

silk wrote: »

I'm a landlord who lived in her house for seven years without any damp. Then I left. I had a tenant just move out after three years, and damp has been reported in two places. But the EA is suggesting this won't be a tenant issue.

I can only assume tenant has been somehow causing condensation. Not sure what to do if I don't have EA on my side? The tenant only put one months deposit down anyway (£450), which won't cover this on top of the other damage she left (like a hole in the &*!& wall).

Do you have some idea that your property is magically immune from developing damp?

Where is the damp? Perhaps the gutters need repairing, maybe it's the roof, maybe it's the damp course? Are the windows sound? Just because all of these things may have been in good order when you lived there, three years is a long time and wear and tear happens, especially in the stormy weather we have had.

Have you checked the cause? It may be something the tenant has done, but you cannot assume this without evidence of the cause.

PensionTech

Small bump on this one!

Following the advice received on this forum I'd been growing more and more convinced that the damp would be seen as our fault and we'd be charged for it. So the boyfriend and I went back in a last-ditch attempt to repair some of the damage done.

We did eventually manage to get quite a lot of the mould off, but in doing so, found some more things out:

• We saw that some mould had been painted over prior to our living there.
• After removing the black condensation mould, we found a tide mark at the bottom of the wall in one part of the house. On closer inspection of the outside wall, there is a tide mark there too, and the damp-proofing doesn't meet recommended standards (height above ground etc.).
• We noticed the mould was only on the walls at the front of the flat, where the tide mark appeared - despite the fact that there are three external walls, and furniture had been up against all of them.
• We saw that the wallpaper had been painted over a number of times.

Based on this we decided that the flat was probably a victim of both rising damp AND condensation, and that the rising damp probably contributed to the condensation in part or in whole (in terms of letting moisture in behind the furniture to settle in the first place), otherwise it would have been on the other walls too. It seemed likely that the landlord already knew about the problem and had tried to cover it up before.

We notified the landlord and asked him to return our deposit in full because we were not responsible for the damage. (To be honest he should have given us most of it anyway as we ended up removing the mould very effectively - there was a spot that could have done with a bit of paint, but as we didn't think the cause of the damp had been rectified - and that it wasn't our problem anyway - we decided not to do the painting ourselves. And despite the landlord's emails telling us that the flat is not in a fit state to let because of "our" damage, he has put it back on the market immediately - at a higher rent than what we were paying.)

The landlord has not replied and all of our money is still with the DPS - it's been nearly a month, and we've chased him. My boyfriend does not want to go through mediation with the DPS, so if we don't get our money back, I suppose we will be going to small claims next.

Does anyone have any thoughts on our worst/best/likely outcome?

tom9980

PensionTech wrote: »

My boyfriend does not want to go through mediation with the DPS, so if we don't get our money back, I suppose we will be going to small claims next.

Does anyone have any thoughts on our worst/best/likely outcome?

Mediation is there to prevent the courts being clogged up unnecessarily, a judge will not be best pleased you didnt take that route first. Present all evidence to the DPS (i hope you have a lot of pictures etc) and argue it out using the proper route.

JencParker

jjlandlord wrote: »

One day landlords will be expected to remind their tenants to breath every minute just in case they get blamed if someone suffocates...

What asinine comment to make



Here we go again... All landlords are monsters.

What causes damp is lack of aeration. There is nothing wrong with opening windows, which is standard advice.

I've lived in many properties over they years from aged from Tudor to modern and never have I had to leave windows open daily to avoid damp. I find some of the comments on here are unbelievable. And if a landlord takes the view that unless the tenant leaves the windows open for a couple of hours every day to ventilate the rooms they are liable for any damp then yes, they are monsters and not providing accommodation fit for purpose. Who the heck goes round ventilating every room for two hours a day in the middle of winter !!!!!!!

Good luck, OP - I hope you get your full deposit back - these landlords do like to take the p.....Unfortunately, the law is heavily weighted in their favour most of the time so worth fighting for when you are in the right.

DRP

PensionTech wrote: »

Small bump on this one!

Following the advice received on this forum I'd been growing more and more convinced that the damp would be seen as our fault and we'd be charged for it. So the boyfriend and I went back in a last-ditch attempt to repair some of the damage done.

We did eventually manage to get quite a lot of the mould off, but in doing so, found some more things out:

• We saw that some mould had been painted over prior to our living there.
• After removing the black condensation mould, we found a tide mark at the bottom of the wall in one part of the house. On closer inspection of the outside wall, there is a tide mark there too, and the damp-proofing doesn't meet recommended standards (height above ground etc.).
• We noticed the mould was only on the walls at the front of the flat, where the tide mark appeared - despite the fact that there are three external walls, and furniture had been up against all of them.
• We saw that the wallpaper had been painted over a number of times.

Based on this we decided that the flat was probably a victim of both rising damp AND condensation, and that the rising damp probably contributed to the condensation in part or in whole (in terms of letting moisture in behind the furniture to settle in the first place), otherwise it would have been on the other walls too. It seemed likely that the landlord already knew about the problem and had tried to cover it up before.

We notified the landlord and asked him to return our deposit in full because we were not responsible for the damage. (To be honest he should have given us most of it anyway as we ended up removing the mould very effectively - there was a spot that could have done with a bit of paint, but as we didn't think the cause of the damp had been rectified - and that it wasn't our problem anyway - we decided not to do the painting ourselves. And despite the landlord's emails telling us that the flat is not in a fit state to let because of "our" damage, he has put it back on the market immediately - at a higher rent than what we were paying.)

The landlord has not replied and all of our money is still with the DPS - it's been nearly a month, and we've chased him. My boyfriend does not want to go through mediation with the DPS, so if we don't get our money back, I suppose we will be going to small claims next.

Does anyone have any thoughts on our worst/best/likely outcome?

Just claim it back from the dps. It'll be less work than the courts. Make sure you have pics of the points you made on this thread, it sounds like you have a very good case.

BigAunty

If the mould/damp was caused by maintenance issues, such as a leaking pipe, faulty damp course, broken guttering, broken extractor fan, it is the landlord's responsibility.

If it was caused by tenant lifestyle - failure to adequately ventilate and heat the property, then it's the tenants responsibility.

Are you in the position to get a free or cheap damp/timber survey from a member of the PCA, for example, that may support your case?