Landlord threatening to withhold deposit due to damp

PensionTech

We're moving out of our flat, and upon starting to move our furniture, we've found a significant amount of black mould on the walls. It doesn't wipe off and it's rotted some of our furniture. We thought it must have come in through the walls, as it's only on a couple of external walls and there's an odd mark showing some sort of cable and socket that must be on the other side of the wall - preventing the mould getting in, we thought. I think it's to blame for a lot of otherwise unexplained respiratory problems I've been having for the last six months - but that's neither here nor there, just to illustrate the severity of the mould. The mould is only on the external walls and it doesn't go up any higher than about a metre. It isn't in any ceiling corners and it isn't below any windows. But there's no tide mark.

As soon as we saw the mould we called the letting agent, who informed the landlord. The landlord has inspected the mould and has decided it's all down to condensation and is therefore our fault "due to not having adequate heating or ventilation or both". He is therefore insisting that we either "rectify the situation" prior to moving out or he will keep as much of our deposit as he thinks necessary to make repairs. The deposit is with a deposit protection scheme and we know that we can go through arbitration, but I want to find out whether the landlord is right in holding us liable for the mould and, if not, how we can go about defending ourselves.

From a little research, it looks to me as though we could only be expected to behave in a "tenant-like" manner and if we've done that, we shouldn't have to pay for any damage. I think we've been perfectly reasonable in how we've treated the flat. We've had the windows open as much as possible, given the incredibly wet winter we've just had; we've had the heating on more than plenty (and we have the gas bills to prove it!); we use the tumbledryer to dry clothes (and I think this is externally vented but I'm not sure); we open the window and use the (fairly shoddy) extractor fan when showering; and we use the extractor hood and open the window when cooking. We have inadvertently done some things that might, as it turns out, exacerbate any condensation problems - e.g. putting furniture against cold external walls - but we weren't warned in the first place the the flat might be prone to damp, nor given any information about how to avoid condensation, so we don't think it's unreasonable to expect that we might be able to put up a bookcase or two. We certainly haven't been having waterfights or using the place as a sauna.

I should mention that the flat is pretty old and poorly insulated - it's half single-glazed, half double-glazed - but there is mould in both the single-glazed and double-glazed bedrooms. It's on the ground floor. We think there may have been mould here before, in the bathroom - somebody appears to have painted over the grouting on the tiles just above the bath with wall paint!

A final point is that upon discovering the mould we asked the landlord to release us from our tenancy early. We gave notice in mid-May and pay rent monthly on the 28th, so our tenancy ends on 28th June. We hoped that if we could be released earlier - because the mould is clearly so severe that it's affecting my health - then we might have the money to replace our damaged furniture (no contents insurance). Naturally the landlord has refused to do this. I understand that he's under no obligation to do so usually, but should I be able to expect that he should in our circumstances?

BitterAndTwisted

Mould on cold external walls only is almost always due to condensation. Moist air will migrate around a property and condense on the coldest surfaces. The only way to prevent this is to heat and ventilate the property adequately as your landlord has said. That means a complete change of air at least once a day and more often in the winter.

I think you're going to have an uphill struggle to avoid a deduction from your deposit for the mould damage if you don't get rid of the evidence before you leave by washing down with a dilute bleach solution and repainting if necessary

PensionTech

Ugh. Answer I wasn't hoping for! Are we actually liable though? It doesn't quite seem fair if we've been living in a reasonable "tenant-like" manner. Naturally had we been aware that condensation might be an issue (it's never been a problem in any other place we've lived), we would have taken steps to avoid it - but we had no idea until we moved the furniture. Should the landlord be forcing us to pay if we haven't done anything out of the ordinary? Or is it ordinary to leave windows open and the heating on full blast throughout the (very wet) winter?

BitterAndTwisted

What you should have done is ensured a complete change of air every day, and that should not entail keeping the heating on 24/7 with the windows wide open all the time.

As I said, mould on only the external walls indicates inadequate ventilation. That's not the landlord's fault.

I think you're going to have a very hard job avoiding responsibility for causing this mould and should expect a deduction from your deposit for removal and repainting if you don't do it yourselves.

Jabberwk

How does one ensure a complete change of air every day? We have this problem in our flat too, and find we have to scrub mould off the walls at least every 2 weeks in winter despite having moved the furniture away from the walls, wiping down the windows in the morning, purchasing dehumidifiers and using specific mould removing cleaner when we scrub the walls. At what point can one turn round and say 'we've done all we can. This is an issue with the building, not with us'?

WestonDave

If by "purchasing dehumidifiers" you mean those chemical things you put on the window sill, frankly they aren't much use. If you've got a proper electric dehumidifier running for decent hours regularly then you've probably got a point.


Some building characteristics may make condensation damp more likely - uninsulated walls for example will be colder and more sensitive to condensation than an insulated wall. However even insulation isn't fool proof - I've got corners in my house with poor air circulation so in a humid house they tend to have condensation on the wall simply because no heat is getting down there.


The point of changing the air is to remove each day as much moisture as you are putting in. If you are in the house for 12 hours over night breathing away with all the windows shut, you spend some time cooking with open pans, and have a shower before leaving the bathroom door open, you are going to put a lot of moisture into the internal air. Having the windows open across the flat for long enough for fresh air to blow through is one option (but expensive on heating) - running a proper dehumidifier (on its humidistat setting if possible) is probably better given that they are fairly low energy to use and much of the energy they do use will offset the need for other heating because they tend to heat the air slightly and also drier air is easier to heat by other means.

PensionTech

What you should have done is ensured a complete change of air every day

... and more often in the winter!

I really don't mean to labour the point just because I find it inconvenient. But is this a normal thing to expect to have to do in any place? I understand that the landlord isn't responsible for coming round and opening all the windows every day, but we haven't done anything unusual and we had no idea that there might be a problem. Is it our fault if we've just been living normally? We don't leave the windows open during the day when we're at work because we don't want to be robbed. We often leave the windows open at night but we also tend to have the curtains closed for privacy. We wouldn't go around opening windows all the time if it's raining and/or we've already had to put the heating on because it's freezing cold. That all seems normal to me and it's what we've always done in other places without any problem. I don't think we should be penalised for living in that way as it is usually "adequate" in other places. If it's caused damp here then surely that's because the of the flat's design, and the landlord should tell people if they need to take special measures, or at least not hold them responsible for not knowing.

Jabberwk

I understand the point of changing the air. I literally meant 'how does one do this?' Are you saying that in December we should be leaving the windows open for 2 hours and shivering in hats and scarves indoors?

Gordon_Hose

Surely it'll be easier to wash down the walls with bleach and water and re-paint than it is to go through arbitration to get your deposit back which you may not even be successful at?

C'mon, think about it. A few hours work, or months spent chasing a (possible) lost cause?

Jabberwk

I should add that this is a lower ground floor flat, and in all the places I've lived I have never had this sort of problem before so, like the OP, I feel that this isn't the fault of our style of living and find it frustrating that this is something potentially perceived as the fault of the tenant rather than the building.

PensionTech

Surely it'll be easier to wash down the walls with bleach and water and re-paint than it is to go through arbitration to get your deposit back which you may not even be successful at?

We've tried to wash down the walls. It hasn't worked!

Repainting might not be that easy because one of the rooms affected is papered - and we've just bought a house and are having to do that up, whilst we are both working full-time and I am also studying, so we could do without the added manual labour at a flat that is a 40 minutes' drive away.

You're right that I'm pushing this partly because I feel aggrieved. But the decision of what we eventually do, taking practical considerations into account, is something that we'll take between ourselves. My posting on this forum is simply to ascertain the strength of any leg we have to stand on if we do decide to fight it. It just doesn't seem fair if we've lived in a reasonable, average, normal way, and that can somehow result in us losing money.

I'd liken it to a situation we had a few months ago where our vacuum cleaner broke. My boyfriend was vacuuming and the top of the hose snapped. It would not have snapped but for the fact that it was being used - i.e. he broke it, by vacuuming. But it was being used normally as a vacuum cleaner - he wasn't leaning on it or standing on it or trying to hack through it with a saw. We didn't have a guarantee or insurance or anything but we took it back to Argos for a refund because when you buy a vacuum cleaner you expect it to withstand a bit of vacuuming. Argos refunded us with no quibbling. Similarly, when you rent a flat you expect it to withstand a bit of living. I've described how we've lived. If you think that is an unreasonable way to live then fair enough, we're liable for any damage caused by that way of living - but I really don't think it is.

It may be an unreasonable way to live in a flat that you know to have condensation problems - but that wasn't our situation!