LL keeps arranging viewings without notice

RAS

So he appears to be using clauses in the tenancy agreement that were written in the 1970s or even before?

Plainly really au fait with current English tenancy law and fiscal arrangements?

CC-Warrior

sartois wrote: »

Thanks... I did this before I left this morning... as well as taking photos of the tenancy agreement so I have them on my phone!

Another fun fact that I discovered recently was that they got a little annoyed that I had registered myself on the Electoral role for my address (obviously a requirement to get a mortgage). I wonder why this would be an issue? I didn't make a big deal of it at time.

My theory is council tax avoidance shenanigans. My reasoning for this is that the place I live is a Victorian conversion and they have split (I think) 1 house into 4. I have my own front door, and the other front door sits in front of 3 separate flats. Whenever I look up my address on the internet there are only 2 registered addresses (e.g. 10 and 10a). We all pay for the bills directly to the EA (another £175 on top of the rent for council tax, electric, water and gas).

Surely all the utilities should be in your name and you should be paying the companies directly? I've never heard of paying the LL/EA directly for them before.

RAS

Once upon a time in the seventies if the LL provided utilities the let was considered to be "serviced" and the tenant had far fewer rights and the LL far more leverage to remove the tenant.

Given the reference to rates this might be a hang-over from that era?

The other possibility is that the flats are not independently metered (perhaps because they are not officially separate for PP and CT purposes) so the LL charges a flat rate for each property and covers the joint bill?

I believe from other responses here that restricting the tenants right to change suppliers is an unenforceable condition.

sartois

RAS wrote: »

So he apears to be using clauses in the tenancy agreement that were written in the 1970s or even before?

Plainly really au fait with current English tenancy law and fiscal arrangements?

Heh... yeah that sounds about right! The pair of them certainly look and sound like they have just time warped here from that era...

Well I have got home and everything is eerily quiet. They haven't changed the locks... there are no prospective tenants waiting to see the place... I haven't heard a peep from them all day...

Maybe they read the links I sent them and got up to date with current law and they are currently giving me some breathing space whilst they research anger management facilities in the local area.

Bluebirdman_of_Alcathays

To wade in from an energy background.....

A LL paying energy bills is (along with coin sub-meters) an anachronism. No LL in their right mind would get involved these days - it's entirely a third party issue.

The fiddle with coin meters was obvious in it's day. I'm not sure what's going on here, but perhaps they're inflating rent by £xxx knowing you're using nowhere near that, and trousering the rest away from HMRC. I'm sure someone else can enlighten.

sartois

Bluebirdman_of_Alcathays wrote: »

To wade in from an energy background.....

A LL paying energy bills is (along with coin sub-meters) an anachronism. No LL in their right mind would get involved these days - it's entirely a third party issue.

The fiddle with coin meters was obvious in it's day. I'm not sure what's going on here, but perhaps they're inflating rent by £xxx knowing you're using nowhere near that, and trousering the rest away from HMRC. I'm sure someone else can enlighten.

Hmmm... yes it appears they do make a profit from my bills...

If I was paying myself it would work out at £75 council tax, £57 gas+electric and £23 for water (based on average prices for 1 bed flat). So £155 per month basically. I pay them £175.

This site is interesting:

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/consumer_e/consumer_energy_supply_e/consumer_energy_bills_e/consumer_paying_your_energy_bills_e/paying_your_landlord_for_energy.htm

This suggests a maximum price they can charge me, and here is an interesting snippet:

"If your usage is recorded by a meter

If your consumption is recorded by a meter your landlord should bill you for the units used, plus your share of any standing charge at the same price as he paid his supplier. Your landlord can only charge you the domestic rate for energy, even if he has a business contract with the supplier.

If your usage is not recorded by a meter

If your usage is not recorded by a dedicated meter for your property, the landlord should work out your charges proportionately. The landlord must be able to show you how they've worked out the costs if you ask. If your landlord fails to do this in a reasonable time, you may be entitled to claim compensation."

So if my council tax is £75 per month, then I guess they would have to justify (and show me how they worked it out) the £100 per month they are charging me for energy as a "resupplier".

Bluebirdman_of_Alcathays

sartois wrote: »

Hmmm... yes it appears they do make a profit from my bills...

If I was paying myself it would work out at £75 council tax, £57 gas+electric and £23 for water (based on average prices for 1 bed flat). So £155 per month basically. I pay them £175.

This site is interesting:

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/consumer_e/consumer_energy_supply_e/consumer_energy_bills_e/consumer_paying_your_energy_bills_e/paying_your_landlord_for_energy.htm

This suggests a maximum price they can charge me, and here is an interesting snippet:

"If your usage is recorded by a meter

If your consumption is recorded by a meter your landlord should bill you for the units used, plus your share of any standing charge at the same price as he paid his supplier. Your landlord can only charge you the domestic rate for energy, even if he has a business contract with the supplier.

If your usage is not recorded by a meter

If your usage is not recorded by a dedicated meter for your property, the landlord should work out your charges proportionately. The landlord must be able to show you how they've worked out the costs if you ask. If your landlord fails to do this in a reasonable time, you may be entitled to claim compensation."

So if my council tax is £75 per month, then I guess they would have to justify (and show me how they worked it out) the £100 per month they are charging me for energy as a "resupplier".

You're spot on.

Normally when a LL pays the bills (rare), it would be if there were 1 meter, but x properties (3 in your case). Even then, they're not allowed to profit from the resale of energy.

In your case, I believe you have a dedicated meter. There's no discernible reason for the LL to pay bills and subsequently bill you. You're entitled to a full breakdown of costs, and should only pay for the KWh consumed.

(I actually think in this case, stick with the code changed until you have to bolt, then get the !!!! out)

sartois

In fact, another can of worms has been opened... according to this document from ofgem, the maximum price that can be charged for energy is the amount it cost the LandLord..

"From 1 January 2003, the maximum price at which gas or electricity may be resold is the same price as that paid by the person who is reselling it ("the reseller"), including any standing charges."

It also says that anyone who charges more than the maximum resale price may face civil proceedings for the recovery of the amount overcharged, and may be required to pay interest on the amounts overcharged.

Seems like profiting from the sale of energy to tenants is indeed a bit naughty!

Bluebirdman_of_Alcathays

sartois wrote: »

In fact, another can of worms has been opened... according to this document from ofgem, the maximum price that can be charged for energy is the amount it cost the LandLord..

"From 1 January 2003, the maximum price at which gas or electricity may be resold is the same price as that paid by the person who is reselling it ("the reseller"), including any standing charges."

It also says that anyone who charges more than the maximum resale price may face civil proceedings for the recovery of the amount overcharged, and may be required to pay interest on the amounts overcharged.

Seems like profiting from the sale of energy to tenants is indeed a bit naughty!

I think we've crossed posts just then, but yes, you are again correct. Only licensed energy companies can profit from the sale of energy. Tut tut LL!

sartois

Bluebirdman_of_Alcathays wrote: »

You're spot on.

Normally when a LL pays the bills (rare), it would be if there were 1 meter, but x properties (3 in your case). Even then, they're not allowed to profit from the resale of energy.

In your case, I believe you have a dedicated meter. There's no discernible reason for the LL to pay bills and subsequently bill you. You're entitled to a full breakdown of costs, and should only pay for the KWh consumed.

(I actually think in this case, stick with the code changed until you have to bolt, then get the !!!! out)

Heh yes I agree... although I think when they come round to inspect the property as I am leaving I will ask for the breakdown to discourage them from getting over excited about how much of my deposit they can keep!!