Camping Refund entitlement?

Stoke

Hello,

I am trying to ascertain whether we have any chance of a (partial) refund for a camping trip that went a bit sour this weekend. We booked for three days, yet were asked to leave after just one.

We arrived on the Saturday at about 3pm and we set up camp. The warden explained the camp rules e.g. no music after 12 o clock, no burning fire on the floor, no loud drunken antics etc, all of which we agreed to honour.

Three of us, including me, went into town to watch the Champions League final, while the others stayed at the camp site. At midnight, the music was switched off and we returned at about 1am from town. Other campers were still awake at this time and were chatting away in their tents. In one tent, someone was strumming a guitar so the camp certainly wasn't silent. We sat under our gazebo for a few minutes before going to bed. We weren't loud, or lairy, we were just sat drinking bottled beer. Nothing particularly out of the ordinary for a camping trip.

The next morning, the camp site warden came up at roughly 9:30 and asked how our night had been and said he was happy that the music had been switched off at midnight and hoped we enjoyed the rest of our stay. He said he heard us getting back at 1am but that we were quiet and he even referred to us as 'good lads'.

Less than half an hour later, he returned to inform us that a complaint had been made by the family behind us regarding the music, talking and apparently the use of flash lights. He said that he heard the music go off at 12am and didn't hear anything out of the ordinary when we returned from twon but obviously wanted to tell us what had been said. We explained that the music was definitely switched off at bang on midnight, and that while we were talking afterwards, there was plenty of talking from other tents around us and that we were no louder. We also explained the flash lights were only used to help us get to our tents as the place was very dark but agreed to be more careful with where we shone them. The warden asked us to just remember the site rules and be a little more courteous that night. He seemed very happy with us as guests and seemed to suggest we were low maintenance compared to some groups who come. Fine, no issue.

We headed into town to grab some food as it had started raining heavily and we were struggling to get the BBQ going. Upon returning (roughly 2 hours later), our car was flagged over to the side. The warden informed us that we needed to leave the site within the hour. The same people who had complained before, it seems, had been back down and insisted they speak with the owner of the camp site and demanded we be removed as they were not happy with the way we had been dealt with in the first place. They had amended their original story and claimed that we were shouting (as opposed to talking), some of our language had been overly-fruitful, and that we were not the kind of people they wanted on a family camp site. He explained that the owner had instructed him to ask us to leave and he was left with no other option.

We had no warning, no second chance, no offer of a different position on the camp site, or anything like that. We also had no right of defence as the owner had made up their mind while we were in town. Our side of the story wasn't really asked, at least in the second case. I wouldn't say the language was particularly unpleasant or foul-mouthed and it just seems as though the people behind wanted rid of us. I really can't think of anything we did that was particularly serious and if our behaviour had been so bad, why had nobody else complained, including a tent that was even closer to us on the right hand side.

If he had actually asked us our side of events, I might have brought up the fact that we had been kept up most the night by that particular families baby which cried constantly until about 5am.

Instead of kicking off however, we agreed to be diplomatic and leave as requested. At the time we were being asked to leave, we didn't really think about a refund as we were a bit upset. We did think about walking down just before we left and asking but we decided not to as we didn't want to get into an argument and hoped the way we conducted ourselves showed that the accusations were completely unfounded.

For us, being asked to leave was a massive disappointment. Most of us don't get to go on holiday very often due to work commitments. Not only that, we are now out of pocket as it's one of the more expensive camp sites we've been to and two days were obviously taken away.

Do we have a right to a refund? I appreciate that their terms and conditions are designed to protect them and say no refunds, but as far as we're concerned, no camp site rules were broken, certainly none in writing, and we were given no real warning or second chance. The initial deposit was paid via PayPal and the final payment via cash. I appreciate that I have literally zero chance of getting the cash payment back, but would it be worth asking for a refund of my deposit which covered a single nights stay?

Any thoughts and advice would be really appreciated.

agrinnall

I would say it's definitely worth asking for a refund of the two nights you were not allowed to stay. I would write to the site, and perhaps in the first instance simply state that you paid for 3 nights, were only allowed to stay for 1 and ask for a refund of the other 2 nights. If they refuse then you may need to be more demanding, but try a simple approach first, and come back here to tell us how you get on and for more suggestions if this doesn't work.

Buzby

The downside of this is if they refuse, you can only go the Small Claims route. Assuming it is defended, is how credible you appear. In a similar situation, I refused to leave until my fees were refunded pro rata (which they were).

Drink does make people talk louder - and as a tent is just cloth, words carry easily to those adjacent. Profanity to some is just riffing to others, but sensibilities can be bruised and the warden was in a difficult position.

A shame you agreed to depart before negotiating your refund, as that would have been an end to the matter.

Stoke

I'll send them a letter (would an e-mail be better?) first thing tomorrow.

In hindsight we definitely shouldn't have left without negotiating the refund, but hey, at the time, we just thought let's get out of here. I suppose that was our opportunity seeing as we were in the position of power.

pinkshoes

I would send an email first, then if they decline the refund, send a letter before action, giving the full version of events.

I'm guessing the talking until midnight, although within the rules, annoyed the family with a baby, who were then tired and grumpy at having been woken up by their own child all night as well ask kept awake until midnight.

I'd be tempted to make it clear in your email you stuck to their rules, as verified by their own site manager, and yet the other family kept YOU awake with a crying baby, yet you had to leave.

Would it be worth asking for a full refund then a free stay at their camp site later in the year for for ruining your holiday?

daytona0

By virtue o the fact that you didn't kick off when they refused entry (which you should have done) makes me think that you were probably an "Ok" bunch. Problem with campsites is that you get the occasional crank who absolutely detests young people drinking and having fun (you also get the !!!!heads whom you would agree deserve to be kicked out). Once someone like that hates you and starts badgering the owners then it puts the owner in an impossible situation... It was probably easier just chucking you out citing unruly behaviour even if you were ok..

1. Send them a letter or email politely asking refund for 2 days. Wait a week.

2. Then send them a letter before action letter or email (pdf attachments scare the hell outta people!)

3. Consider legal action if possible

Stoke

Thanks for your advice. I will send an e-mail today. I'm hoping they will see it from our point of view, that we had no right of defence and our conduct was indicative of decent people and not people trying to cause harm.

I totally get the difficulties from the campsite owners point of view. I know that it's become a bit of a thing, for groups of young lads to rock up to a campsite, get smashed, trash the place and cause havoc, but I'm afraid that was simply not us. If we'd been sat doing the dentist's chair while singing football songs I could totally understand where they were coming from, but that simply wasn't us.

We were there to enjoy ourselves in a respectful manner. Unfortunately, as you say, I have a feeling the family heard us arrive and decided they from the off that they didn't want us there.

We weren't given a receipt, will that weaken our argument if it ever went to small claims court?

Stoke

Would this email be okay:

Dear ...
I am writing in regards to Sunday 25th of May in which my party, booked under the name ..., were asked to vacate ... campsite two days early after a complaint.

As a group, we feel this situation was not dealt with to an acceptable standard and we were let down as paying customers. The service provided fell significantly short of what is expected.

Disappointingly, it appears from the information we were given that only one complaint was made by a family and we feel that we were removed because they insisted. We were not given a chance to defend ourselves as the decision was made to remove us from the campsite before anyone had even spoken to us. In fact, we were not even present on the campsite when the decision was made.

What is most concerning is that the warden admitted that he heard nothing out of the ordinary and the family in question did not ask us to quieten down whatsoever. If the noise was unacceptably loud, I fail to understand why those affected would not have asked us to quieten down and more importantly, why the warden did not hear it.

We also feel that the planning left a lot to be desired. Placing a large group of young male’s in-between families was not an ideal situation as there was always a chance of conflict. Further to that point, we do not understand why an alternative plot was not offered to us after the complaint had been made. We do not understand why this offer was made to the family yet was not extended to our party. This seems to coincide with the suggestion that the family insisted we be removed altogether.

I believe our conduct upon being asked to vacate the premises was indicative of our overall behaviour. We left without complaint as to cause as little disturbance to the other guests as possible and we felt written contact was the best way to get our point across.

We feel that it is only right that a refund for two days of our trip is appropriate.
I await your contact and hope this matter can be resolved.

Yours sincerely,

....

Does this read okay?

pulliptears

Wasn't in Towyn was it?

unholyangel

Stoke wrote: »

Would this email be okay:



Does this read okay?

I'd take out all the emotions. Generally in a letter of complaint it is always best to stick to the bare minimum, not to elaborate too much and also best to stay away from phrasing such as being disappointed, angry, upset etc.

This is a business transaction that has gone wrong and emotions really don't have any place in a breach of contract. It generally just tends to distract them from the important parts.

On x date you paid x amount per night totalling x amount/x amount for x nights stay.

You arrived on x date, were in full compliance with site rules which the on site manager/guard (whoever he was) agreed with. However, he was subsequently asked to remove you by the owner due to another guests insistence without any verification of the complaints or consideration as to alternatives (such as suggesting a different plot).

Blah blah.

What exactly were the rules as written btw?

Stoke

pulliptears wrote: »

Wasn't in Towyn was it?

No. I'd rather not say until the matter has been resolved.