Wow!

IveSeenTheLight

Percy1983 wrote: »

Don't worry about it they have attacked my business

LOL, I have not attacked his business, just pointed out the hypocrisy and inability to self reflect.

Out of Interest, why is it okay to "attack" BTL business investors but cannot accept the same premise being placed on other business models?

It's a business, nobody is holding anybody to ransom.

There is a huge gap, but it's wrong to target those providing a solution as opposed to focussing on the root cause.

Bantex_2

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

Ah, here you understand the difference.
The problem is that there is not a limitless supply of properties, yet still a huge need for rental properties.

BTL is simply filling a gap for those in NEED to rent.

It is naive to think that every property could be owner occupied and even if the magic wand could be waved, there is still a shortage.

The balance between rental and owner occupied property is a fine balance and where there is a shortage of properties for the demand, it pushes up prices of both rents and prices until the demand is effectively reduced.

This does not mean that demand has totally eased, but it has reverted to desire.

I still see BTL at profiteering form a scarce but necessary resource.
I know landlords who are paying around £75.00 per month in mortgage interest on places they are renting out for £900 per month. That borders in immoral to me when they are supplying a necessity rather than a discretionary spend luxury.

mayonnaise

Bantex wrote: »

I know landlords who are paying around £75.00 per month in mortgage interest on places they are renting out for £900 per month. That borders in immoral to me....

Percy buys his blank DVD's for 2p and sells them for £20. Is that immoral also?

Percy1983

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

LOL, I have not attacked his business, just pointed out the hypocrisy and inability to self reflect.

Out of Interest, why is it okay to "attack" BTL business investors but cannot accept the same premise being placed on other business models?

It's a business, nobody is holding anybody to ransom.

There is a huge gap, but it's wrong to target those providing a solution as opposed to focussing on the root cause.

I suppose the point is are BTL landlords providing a solution or exploiting the situation?

I do agree there is a need for rental properties but I do think the current balance is wrong, in basic terms there is many who would like to buy but are stuck renting.

Now here is the problem is a bit of a chicken and egg arguement so I agree this can just go in circles but here goes:

Many people are renting as they can't afford to buy.

BTL Landlord buy properties for said people to rent.

The buying of BTL's means there is less stock so remaining buyers bid against each other raising the price.

The price rise prices a few more out.

BTL Landlord buy properties for said people tp rent.

The buying of BTL's means there is less stock so remaining buyers bid against each other raising the price.

The price rise prices a few more out.

etc.....

See a problem?

Bantex_2

mayonnaise wrote: »

Percy buys his blank DVD's for 2p and sells them for £20. Is that immoral also?

I would be if DVDs were a necessary part of life and there was a shortage of supply. I believe that is the basic definition of profiteering which in war time could lead to imprisonment.

Seabee42

I do not think BTLers are evil they are generally just looking for a decent return on their money. Do they contribute to house prices going up yes clearly since any demand does that.

I think some sort of rent control will come in time just because social housing is not being built and housing benefit is soaring.

CLAPTON

Percy1983 wrote: »

I suppose the point is are BTL landlords providing a solution or exploiting the situation?

I do agree there is a need for rental properties but I do think the current balance is wrong, in basic terms there is many who would like to buy but are stuck renting.

Now here is the problem is a bit of a chicken and egg arguement so I agree this can just go in circles but here goes:

Many people are renting as they can't afford to buy.

BTL Landlord buy properties for said people to rent.

The buying of BTL's means there is less stock so remaining buyers bid against each other raising the price.

The price rise prices a few more out.

BTL Landlord buy properties for said people tp rent.

The buying of BTL's means there is less stock so remaining buyers bid against each other raising the price.

The price rise prices a few more out.

etc.....

See a problem?

no

with more renters there are clearly fewer potential OO competing to buy so prices should fall

obviously nonsense but then so is the other rubbish


the problem we have is a rising population and people with higher housing asperations and too little building

ed110220

mayonnaise wrote: »

Percy buys his blank DVD's for 2p and sells them for £20. Is that immoral also?

Not really a good analogy. If there was such a restricted supply of DVDs that fewer and fewer people could afford them and then those who could started buying them up and renting them out, thereby inflating the price further still, then it might be... and if DVDs were a necessity.

But then what is immoral and what isn't? It's all based on point of view. To someone who out of necessity is seeing most of their hard-earned income going into the pocket of a landlord it probably seems immoral, while to the landlord it's just an honest business.

On the other hand Chairman Mao had 'evil' landlords shot out hand on coming to power, was that immoral... to the landlords no doubt it was, to their tenants possibly not.

Ed

CLAPTON

ed110220 wrote: »

On the other hand Chairman Mao had 'evil' landlords shot out hand on coming to power, was that immoral... to the landlords no doubt it was, to their tenants possibly not.

Ed

a very valid story
shortly after the landlords were shot so were a lot of tenants

and then a lot more starved to death due to the mad socialist policies of the lunatic

IveSeenTheLight

Percy1983 wrote: »

I suppose the point is are BTL landlords providing a solution or exploiting the situation?

Most definitely providing a solution.
See my earlier link confirming a shortage of rental properties and a need for more.
If there was less Rental properties then the rental problem would be far worse.

Percy1983 wrote: »

I do agree there is a need for rental properties but I do think the current balance is wrong, in basic terms there is many who would like to buy but are stuck renting.

Balance in terms of???????
There is a need for more OO properties AND more Rental properties

Percy1983 wrote: »

Many people are renting as they can't afford to buy.

BTL Landlord buy properties for said people to rent.

This is clear, BTL offers a solution for those people you highlight cannot buy

Percy1983 wrote: »

The buying of BTL's means there is less stock so remaining buyers bid against each other raising the price.

The price rise prices a few more out.

There was an article nett effective of BTL added 7% onto the price of a property. (**NOTE** I don't recall the article stating what would be the effect on rents without these BTL's, however as the Rental market is significantly smaller than the OO market, the effect on rents would be significantly magnified)

The average price of a property is £177k **NOTE** note this is the average house, not the average FTB property)

To purchase the average house, you need a 5% deposit circa £8,880.
If house prices were 7% cheaper, you would need £8,258.
A difference of £622.

This is not pricing out FTBers.

Indeed, a few months ago, the average price was circa 7% cheaper, so they could have moved then.

In my opinion, people are using BTL as an excuse as opposed to seeing the root cause.

Percy1983 wrote: »

See a problem?

Yes, I've stated it a number of times.

THERE IS A CHRONIC SHORTAGE OF ALL TYPES OF PROPERTIES.

There needs to be a significant building plan put in place to back track the years of lack of investment.