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UK Parking Patrol Office charge notice - help!

kingdave82
Posts: 42 Forumite
Hi all,
The car my girlfriend was in had a charge notice sticker on the front of it at the beginning of April. We ignored that and now 1 month later we have received a letter from UK Parking Patrol Office asking for £100.
I see that the latest advice is no longer to ignore these letters, but I am unsure in exactly what to write to appeal this.
The "alleged contravention" (their words) is "no permit". You need a permit to park in the car park of the block of flats (there is no gate, anyone can walk or drive in, there are signs dotted around the car park warning of the requirement for a permit, permits are free to residents and unavailable to anyone else)
As permits are free of charge, and therefore there is no charge to park here, and there has been no financial loss to the land owner (e.g. Paid £2 for 2 hours and stayed for 4 hours) I am unsure how to word the appeal letter.
I have copied the letter from the **NEWBIES!! PRIVATE PARKING TICKET? OLD OR NEW? **READ THESE FAQS FIRST!** Thankyou! MSE FAQ thread but it doesn't seem to quite fit the exact purposes of our situation. (It won't let me post a link as a new user)
Can anyone help me in coming up with the best way to appeal this charge or appropriate wording for a letter to this company?
It's probably worth noting as well that the car park for this block of flats was not full at the time and always has at least 30 spare spaces (there are around 75 flats in total and the majority do have a car) so there was no preventing anyone else from parking, causing an obstruction etc. It looks merely to be a £100 charge for parking without having a little permit sticker in the windscreen.
Can anyone help?
Thank you
The car my girlfriend was in had a charge notice sticker on the front of it at the beginning of April. We ignored that and now 1 month later we have received a letter from UK Parking Patrol Office asking for £100.
I see that the latest advice is no longer to ignore these letters, but I am unsure in exactly what to write to appeal this.
The "alleged contravention" (their words) is "no permit". You need a permit to park in the car park of the block of flats (there is no gate, anyone can walk or drive in, there are signs dotted around the car park warning of the requirement for a permit, permits are free to residents and unavailable to anyone else)
As permits are free of charge, and therefore there is no charge to park here, and there has been no financial loss to the land owner (e.g. Paid £2 for 2 hours and stayed for 4 hours) I am unsure how to word the appeal letter.
I have copied the letter from the **NEWBIES!! PRIVATE PARKING TICKET? OLD OR NEW? **READ THESE FAQS FIRST!** Thankyou! MSE FAQ thread but it doesn't seem to quite fit the exact purposes of our situation. (It won't let me post a link as a new user)
Can anyone help me in coming up with the best way to appeal this charge or appropriate wording for a letter to this company?
It's probably worth noting as well that the car park for this block of flats was not full at the time and always has at least 30 spare spaces (there are around 75 flats in total and the majority do have a car) so there was no preventing anyone else from parking, causing an obstruction etc. It looks merely to be a £100 charge for parking without having a little permit sticker in the windscreen.
Can anyone help?
Thank you
0
Comments
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Hi kingdave82,
Assuming you live in either England or Wales - then yes the registered keeper should appeal the charge and the 1st appeal template letter is all they need - it contains the relevant legal arguments needed to challenge the charge.
The circumstances on the day are largely irrelevant. Just add the relevant personal details and send the appeal template off. The real aim of the 1st appeal is to get a POPLA code when the parking company reject your appeal (which they most likely will) so have a read of post #3 of the NEWBIES thread for info on how to win the 2nd stage POPLA appeal.
Once you've got your POPLA code post back on this thread - pictures of the signs on the site would also be useful so forum members can advise you on POPLA appeal wording as UK Parking Patrol Office uses what is known as a Contractual fee model which needs different wording than most of the template POPLA appeal examples.0 -
kingdave82 wrote: »MSE FAQ thread but it doesn't seem to quite fit the exact purposes of our situation.
You will notice point 1 of the appeal templates says:
"1) The amount being claimed is not a genuine pre-estimate of loss to your company or the landowner".
This point applies exactly to your situation and it is the one that will work in your favor ultimately. Include the other points in the template as well though.New members, please refer to "sticky" threads that are alwasys "stuck" at the top of this forum0 -
Thanks ColliesCarer.
The part I was unsure about in that letter is this section:
1) The amount being claimed is not a genuine pre-estimate of loss to your company or the landowner
2) Your signage does not comply with your ATA Code of Practice and was not sufficiently prominent to create any contract
3) You are not the landowner and do not have the standing to offer contracts nor to bring a claim for trespass
There are plenty of signs around, and while you wouldn't necessarily be able to read them while driving past at 10-15 mph in the car park, there are plenty of them around to see and read once parked up.
And whether to add extra to this section around the charges incurred that aren't applicable to anyone parking in these spaces as parking is free:
- the legal basis of your charge (i.e. breach, trespass or contractual fee?) as your signage was not seen/accepted by the driver and your recent Notice failed to make the basis of the charge clear. As keeper, I cannot be expected to guess the nature of the allegation.
The notice applied to the windscreen and the notice through the post both have no VAT or creditor information on them either. Some other sites I have visited about this seem to suggest this is a contravention and the notice is not applicable without them providing such information. Is it worth calling them out on this too?0 -
I have copied the letter from the **NEWBIES!! PRIVATE PARKING TICKET? OLD OR NEW? **READ THESE FAQS FIRST!** Thankyou! MSE FAQ thread but it doesn't seem to quite fit the exact purposes of our situation.
The signage is NEVER compliant. There are always signs up of course, there have to be - but it's never compliant and the point about signs should always be left in the template appeal. In fact your next words prove the signs are not readable on arrival and if you want you could add these words to point #2 (but DON'T say 'there are plenty of signs'!):you wouldn't necessarily be able to read them while driving past at 10-15 mph in the car parkthere are plenty of them around to see and read once parked up.
As for the creditor being missed off the NTK, yes you could add a point #4 in fact:
4) Your Notice to Keeper is not compliant with POFA 2012 as it fails to identify the creditor which could be yourselves, but could more likely be the landowner, or your client, or indeed another party. A flawed NTK creates no keeper liability - and I am appealing as keeper - so it will be an interesting point if you pursue me and try to argue 'keeper liability' at POPLA stage.PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
CLICK at the top or bottom of any page where it says:
Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD0 -
Thanks all.
Once I've then posted this letter off to them, can anyone share any experience of this particular company?
i.e. are they likely to respond with more letters to say the charge is genuine, drop it based on the demands for info etc. in the letter?0 -
They will reject and send you a POPLA code - then you will win! To make sure that 'no GPEOL' will win in the end, show us the sign wording please. Take a picture and post a broken link here (put gaps in the URL or remove the http://).PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
CLICK at the top or bottom of any page where it says:
Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD0 -
kingdave82 wrote: »The notice applied to the windscreen and the notice through the post both have no VAT or creditor information on them either. Some other sites I have visited about this seem to suggest this is a contravention and the notice is not applicable without them providing such information. Is it worth calling them out on this too?
Leave all the points in the template letter.
Re: the point above - do not mention the windscreen ticket - that was the drivers and you are appealing as the keeper but you can add an extra point
4/ Your Notice to Keeper does not comply with the requirements of POFA schedule 4 therefore the keeper is not liable.
No need to go into detail the above wording will be sufficient
Edit - Apologies for the xover C-m - stupid browser takes ages to show any new posts - really must change to something faster0 -
Coupon-mad wrote: »They will reject and send you a POPLA code - then you will win! To make sure that 'no GPEOL' will win in the end, show us the sign wording please. Take a picture and post a broken link here (put gaps in the URL or remove the
But can I expect the POPLA appeal process to be fairly straight forward? I can't really be bothered with a lengthy back and forth between us!!
Pictures below. Remove the spaces.
Sign close up:
postimg. org / image / ay8qq530t/
Also, what does
Sign on lamp post:
postimg. org / image / nr1wn6ky5/
Also, what does no GPEOL mean?0 -
In addition, is it fine to just stick my appeals letter in the post box? Or should I visit the post office for proof of posting, or send it recorded or anything like that?0
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Go to post office and ask for proof of posting.
If you just send it through the post, the will claim they never received it and if you send it recorded they will just refuse to sign for it and you will have wasted your money.0
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