We will robustly defend your right to talk about how to fight unfair tickets

MSE_Martin

I have read some of the concern threads on here about post moderation, as well as some of the tweets I have been sent over post removal here. So I've reviewed the situation personally and want to explain where we are.

MoneySavingExpert is 100% committed to taking on unfair private parking tickets and companies behaving inappropriately. This is often a cowboy market with some firms displaying behaviour only suiting the wild west.

The industry has tried to legally shut us up - and we have robustly defended and refused to make any changes to our guide - which is the key focal point - and receives the bulk of traffic. Much to their chagrin.

In the forum, we have and will continually protect discussion of how to legally fight unfair parking tickets again much to the companies unhappiness (not that I give a flying fig about that).

Yet I can't prioritise resourcing defending the very occasional potentially defamatory name calling of INDIVIDUAL companies as. Say you believe they've behaved badly, inappropriately, unfairly by all means - but if you call them "thieves or scammers" it crosses the line - and causes all of us difficulties.

Remember when you say it on here, when we are notified as a complaint, we in many circumstances then become the publishers of it.

When someone does casually allege illegality, for us to defend that needs evidence and proof and on occasions we have done that (not specifically related to parking but as a general premise across the forum) we find users then disengage and don't want to get involved, leaving us high and dry.

Yet even so, I don't consider defending name-calling a priority for the limited legal resource we have. Defending your right to fight unfair tickets, yes. Saying you are unhappy, believe companies are pushing it, encouraging others to fight unfair tickets - all good.

All we're asking is that you moderate your language and stick to the meat of this subject which is tackling unfair treatment, rather than fighting for the right to call them '!!!!!!!s'.

My forum team are not legal or parking specialists, though we do have limited internal legal resource things can be escalated to. They do their best.

I understand the decisions haven't and if I'm honest won't always be 100% spot on - there are millions of words written in the forum every week, its not an easy job and perfection isn't attainable.

I don't have the resource to sit here and review every past decision on a case by case basis.

However I am alive to your concerns and having reviewed it have explained to my team I have some sympathy with the views expressed. So from now on I have asked the forum team to be a bit more robust here in terms of defending the posts that are on here.

As my time is tight, I have also asked my Managing Editor (ie the boss of my editorial team) MSE Guy – who himself is a campaigning journalist with a personally robust view on this - to take an interest from the editorial perspective to ensure that the line we take on the main site is not being diluted in the way the forum team look at posts.

The last thing I want is parking companies who are unfairly treating consumers to get away with it.

I can't vouch we'll get it perfect to every users satisfaction in future. Nor can I ask the team have the time to explain every decision (we simply couldn't run this place if we did).

I do though commit that we are on this subject and want this forum to remain a place where people who feel unjustly treated by parking companies can get help and share information to take on their cause.

I would ask you just to understand that we are in no way cow-towing to anyone in this fight and that if you do understand that, if you are tempted to 'have a go' at a company on here, you think carefully about the precision of the language used.

Martin

PS If you do genuinely believe you have a story about a parking company who has behaved criminally and have evidence to back it up - as well as obviously going to the police - please let [EMAIL="news@moneysavingexpert.com"]news@moneysavingexpert.com[/EMAIL].

We are unafraid of publishing such stories that check out and are in mainstream public interest and via that mechanism can draw far more attention to it than just here in the forum.


PPS Im writing this on my birthday when I'm meant to be off, and Mrs MSE is telling me I shouldn't be working, so do forgive me if any phrasing is scrappy due to writing at speed!

Iceweasel

Duly noted - Happy Birthday, Martin. :bdaycake:;):beer:

Not_Scammed

Thanks and Happy Birthday Martin :j

4consumerrights

Thank you for posting and happy birthday!

However from experience and reading many threads on this forum the name calling mentioned "thieves or scammers" does not occasion with frequency nor is it often directed at one company.

It is the manner in which private parking companies operate which cause the problems - and not the forum regulars who fight these companies day in and day out challenging the legalities of their charges and operations.

Is it fair that parking companies are continually breaching the Equality Act?


Is it fair their parking charges are designed to punish and penalise individuals and do not represent a genuine pre-estimate of loss for any alleged breach?

Is it fair that we see witness statements signed on behalf on a landowner by parking companies in lieu of actual contracts and even it transpires that the landowner stated was not the actual landowner?

Is it fair that parking companies apply retrospectively for planning permission after deliberately reducing free parking times in order to maximise their revenue?

Is it fair that parking companies exert pressure on untrained individuals when issued court papers with a without prejudice save costs offer when they either do not have the authority to operate or the landowner has instructed them to cancel the parking charge and withdraw proceedings.?

I could cite dozens more but......

what would you call their operations a scam or legal based on the above all of which can be supported with documentary evidence?

kirkbyinfurnesslad_2

Thank you Martin, for actually being alive the concerns of users on here and giving a proper response, which is all people can ask for.

I am glad that you are standing up to these companies and interesting that you say they have tried to legally shut MSE up over these issues.

Prehaps MSE should encourage parking companies to come on here under their company names , like Vodaphone , Eon do etc

But we know they wont.

waamo

Hope the Mrs got a good deal on the cake.

Personally I understand how difficult it is having been in the position of running a site that ended up in court.

We won but it was a bit of a nightmare.

Happy birthday from me too.

Stroma

Thank you Martin in taking time out to respond to us on here, I will tow the line by not calling individual companies scammers and scum, even if I feel they are! But as an industry they are cowboys, and that is your words.

Whilst we are talking here, can I ask that the information on the mse website is now out of date and needs updating , this is the current advice in the sticky thread below, it's by Coupon Mad and she is probably the best contributor on this forum. And would make a good forum guide btw

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4816822

If the mse advice can be updated it would be great.

Many thanks

waamo

Duplicate thread somebody should tell admin. :money:

Stroma

Best to get them merged, I'm sure a forum guide can do that

The_Deep

Many posters on here are far too emotionally involved, and are unable to differentiate between illegal behaviour and dishonest and bad behaviour.

Companies such as PE and UKPC, (to name two at random), prosper because the gullabllty of the average member of the public, that does not mean that they are trading illegally, just as companies such as sell your gold for a pittance, and Brighthouse offer very poor value. As Don Corleone said, its only business. If I was a manager in a PPC, I would probably do the same.

Cornucopia

I disagree.

I think it's a shame that the UK seems to be under constant drift in the direction of "citizens beware" in many different areas of life.

It's good that the Courts often, when they get hold of the issues, decide in favour of citizens. However, that's also indicative that the approach taken by businesses and public bodies was fundamentally wrong-headed in the first place - and in many cases, it was always obviously the case to anyone with a modicum of common sense.

It's a shame that Government and regulators often take great pains to read these situations as reasonable business ideas perhaps being undertaken badly, when the truth is (sorry) that the organisations ARE setting out to deceive the public, and in some cases it is not just deliberate, but a fundamental part of their business model.

We need new law that organisations cannot use deception to extract money from the public, nor to pretend to have powers that they do not have.