Grant of Confirmation

buddy9

chickenface said:

Hi all, i'm in the unenviable position as all others here in trying to navigate the C1 form and hoping for help/clarity on a couple of points. 

My father was domiciled in England and I have gone through probate which was granted. He owned a property in Scotland, which I understand I need to go through confirmation for in order to transfer the deeds etc. 

On the C1 guidance notes it seems somewhat contradictory in places (though it may be the way I am reading it!) 

1. Do I only include the property and the contents that are held in Scotland as all else has been dealt with via English probate?

2. When filling in 'Questions about the estate' Q21 onwards - do I give the total amount that I included in the probate application or just that which relates to Scotland?

Any help would be gratefully appreciated. 

Thank you 

Where the deceased was domiciled in England, a grant of Probate has cross-border equivalency and gives the executor good title to estate in Scotland.

chickenface

Hi @buddy9 thank you so much for your quick response. Does that mean that I don't have to do confirmation for the property in Scotland?

buddy9

chickenface said:

Hi @buddy9 thank you so much for your quick response. Does that mean that I don't have to do confirmation for the property in Scotland?

That should be the case.

chickenface

Thank you for your help, I've been trying to get some confirmation from Land Registry but they won't confirm either way and I'm pointed back towards legal advice from conveyancing solicitor which is an expense I'm trying to avoid. Cross-border assets seem to be very complicated! 

Myskyepie

buddy9 said:

Here is one option (suggestion), based on David being the declarant executor and based on having the original will and deed of assumption.

(Only David and Susan would be entered in box 10).

Delete ‘That I am’, and insert

By his will dated 4 June 2018, the said deceased appointed G G & B Nominees Limited and me to be his executors-nominate. By deed of assumption dated [include all dates if more than one] myself and the said G G & B Nominees Limited assumed Susan [name and address] as additional executor under the said will and the said G G & B Nominees Limited resigned the office of executor.  I am, along with the said Susan [name] the executors-nominate of the said deceased, and we are children of the said deceased. Said will and deed of assumption are produced herewith docquetted and signed as relative hereto. 

Thank you very much!

Dell2u

Hi all.  I am finding this thread super helpful in preparing C1 form for recently deceased mothers estate.  Have some questions regarding mention of pre-deceased persons (father died 22 months before mum).  Mum and dad both had wills in which they named each other and my brother as executor.   

1. Should my father be named in declaration as also being appointed executor? If so would following suffice?
"That I am ... the executor nominate of the deceased conform to her will dated 19 October 2010 herewith exhibited, docquetted and signed as relative hereto, and that I am the son of the said deceased. [Fathers name] (address) is also appointed executor nominate but [fathers name] pre-deceased the said deceased."

2. Is there also need to mention fathers share of house in mums  inventory as we never applied for confirmation when he died?  Everything passed to mum (ie house and joint bank accounts).  Their wills mentioned share of property to be held for liferent use should one survive the other.

also

3. In inventory, is it necessary to include line entry for, say, Estate in Northern Ireland if there is nothing to be noted under this heading?  Ort is it safer to include anyway with £0 beside?

buddy9

Dell2u said:

Hi all.  I am finding this thread super helpful in preparing C1 form for recently deceased mothers estate.  Have some questions regarding mention of pre-deceased persons (father died 22 months before mum).  Mum and dad both had wills in which they named each other and my brother as executor.   

1. Should my father be named in declaration as also being appointed executor? If so would following suffice?
"That I am ... the executor nominate of the deceased conform to her will dated 19 October 2010 herewith exhibited, docquetted and signed as relative hereto, and that I am the son of the said deceased. [Fathers name] (address) is also appointed executor nominate but [fathers name] pre-deceased the said deceased."

2. Is there also need to mention fathers share of house in mums  inventory as we never applied for confirmation when he died?  Everything passed to mum (ie house and joint bank accounts).  Their wills mentioned share of property to be held for liferent use should one survive the other.

also

3. In inventory, is it necessary to include line entry for, say, Estate in Northern Ireland if there is nothing to be noted under this heading?  Ort is it safer to include anyway with £0 beside?

The declaration for para 2 looks good (providing that father and your brother were nominated co-executors), I would add the words shown in bold.

That I am ... the executor nominate of the said deceased conform to her will dated 19 October 2010 herewith exhibited, docquetted and signed as relative hereto, and that I am the son of the said deceased. [Fathers name] (address) is also appointed executor nominate but the said [fathers name] pre-deceased the said deceased.

If there is reference to a liferent trust, this means that there was no survivorship clause in the house title, (providing that the will was drafted accurately).  If so then the house share did not pass to mother, only the right of use passed. If mother had a liferent in father’s share of the house, who was identified in father’s will as receiving his share once the liferent ended and who were the trustees of the liferent trust?

On the basis of the information you give, it looks like Confirmation needs also to be applied for, for father’s estate.

Jenna_

Hi all. I am filling in the C1 form and this thread has been very helpful.  I wondered how to fill in the description of bank accounts on the inventory? Also do I number each asset in the item number? Lastly do I put in furniture etc? As well as utility bills that have been refunded ? The values are under £50? Except council tax is refund of £62 

Dell2u

Thanks @buddy9 

Yes, both father and brother were named as executors.  

I've got copies of the wills now and see that there is an 'Evacuation of Special Destination' annexed which details a survivorship clause (I'm assuming the text is standard but if you want me to quote from it just let me know).  Does this change need for Confirmation for predeceased fathers estate then, and I can just document the heritable property as being fully owned by mum in the inventory?

buddy9

Dell2u said:

Thanks @buddy9 

Yes, both father and brother were named as executors.  

I've got copies of the wills now and see that there is an 'Evacuation of Special Destination' annexed which details a survivorship clause (I'm assuming the text is standard but if you want me to quote from it just let me know).  Does this change need for Confirmation for predeceased fathers estate then, and I can just document the heritable property as being fully owned by mum in the inventory?

Evacuation of a special destination is its removal. So the house title had a special destination (survivorship clause) and this was removed in order for the liferent to take effect.

My understanding is:

If the will created a valid liferent, then father’s share of the house did not pass to your mother, it was held in trust for the beneficiaries as stated in his will with your mother given a liferent. So there is a need to apply for Confirmation for your father’s estate and the inventory should include his share of the house.

Given that the house share did not pass to your mother, then the Confirmation inventory for your mother should include her share of the house and not the whole house.

The calculation for IHT purposes (page 5 of the C1) is a bit different. In father’s case, his house share is treated as having IHT spouse exemption (this assumes that mother and father were married); and in mothers will the whole house value is used for IHT calculations.

(If researching IHT - see life interest trusts)