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Grant of Confirmation

edited 30 November -1 at 1:00AM in Deaths, Funerals & Probate
83 replies 40.8K views
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  • edited 13 September 2019 at 11:59AM
    TcpnTTcpnT Forumite
    235 posts
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    edited 13 September 2019 at 11:59AM
    Firstly, many thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread - the process would have been impossible without it. Special thanks to TcpnT who kindly provided anonymised forms which I followed slavishly. Despite this, however, my forms were returned for amendment and I'm still not really sure why my situation was different from the example but I think I should add this to the body of work in the thread...


    In the example, it was clear that there was property involved but the Inventory entry under Heritable Estate in Scotland stated 'None' and gave a zero value. This was the approach I used too because I assumed that was the approach to take if, "there were words of survivorship in the title to the property, the property will normally pass to the survivor without the need for Confirmation" as per page 7 of the Notes. The disposition in the General Register of Sasines did include the phrase "and to the survivor of them..."



    However, my form was returned for amendment because, according to the Sheriff Court, my father's "share of the heritable property should be included in the inventory, and totals increased accordingly". I then used the wording provided by NiceD on 10 Feb 15 as the basis for describing the property and Confirmation was granted.


    Maybe I'm being cynical but I wonder if the reason I had to include it was so that they could determine the fee, but it could just be that I haven't understood the intricacies of this most arcane system and process. I have to say I am mightily relieved that this is the only time I will have to deal with the Scottish system but thanks again to everyone who made it possible.

    This further confirms my suspicion that individual Sheriff's courts have their own idiosyncracies and sometimes give conflicting or incorrect advice. I guess that local solicitors know what the local court requirements are.

    The estate that I dealt with included 4 properties in Scotland, all of which passed to the wife by survivorship. The solicitor, correctly in my view, did not mention them or their value on the C1 confirmation form inventory. As sheb has stated this is explained on page 7 of the notes.

    The share of the values of these properties passed by survivorship was included on the C5 Return of Estate Information. C5 actually has a box (11.3) for the value of jointly held assets passed automatically in addition to a box (11.1) for the value of assets for confirmation from form C1. All these boxes (together with others) have to be totalled to come to a value of the gross estate. If the value of the shared property was included on both forms (as in sheb's case) and the boxes totalled as directed it would contribute twice in the gross estate value, which is obviously wrong.

    I don't know which court sheb was dealing with but in my case it was Aberdeen. It really does seem that whatever lengths you go to to get the paperwork correct you can never be sure because of local variations in the interpretation of the rules.
  • TcpnT wrote: »
    If you PM me your email address I can send you anonymised copies of the application forms as completed by a solicitor in 2018. They may not cover your exact situation but the formatting and wording will be helpful. I have sent them to a couple of others further up the thread and they have found them useful.


    Good afternoon TcpnT. I also now must complete the process of obtaining Large Estate Confirmation in the Sheriff Court of Paisley for my partner who passed away in March 2018.


    Most of her estate has been wound up relatively easily, as I am executor and sole beneficiary. However some shares and a pension have requested formal Confirmation be sought.


    I notice that you have some experience and i wondered if you would be willing and able to email me some examples of completed forms?


    Many thanks for your time,


    Steve
  • Big Thanks to NiceD for starting this thread and all subsequent contributors - extremely helpful on a subject which has surprising little coverage on the web.

    However, I am confused with the requirements from the C1 notes for the heritable estate, where it has:
    List the estate under these headings and in this order:
    • Estate in Scotland (heritable property first)
    • Estate in England and Wales
    • Estate in Northern Ireland
    • Summary for confirmation
    • Estate elsewhere (say in which country)

    Only a single property applies in Scotland, which i have detailed and NIL for the others, but the PDF adds up the sums automatically, so if I put in a sum for the "Summary for Confirmation", then it doubles up the carried over total at the bottom of the page and I can't override that.

    Would it be possible to see an anonymised copy from someone who has completed this form?

    Many Thanks.

    A
  • Hi Alistair are you putting all the total amounts in the price of shares column? If I recall correctly if you put Totals in the last column (£) it adds them up for you but this column is to be left blank.
    I have a copy of my completed C1 and am happy to send you a copy but would need to anonymise first.

    P
  • Hi Pam,

    Yes, I was putting them in the price/shares column and that is indeed summed up. So I was putting the value of the property after the full details of that. I assumed that the "Summary of confirmation" was going to require the same value? If you had a header for Summary of Confirmation, did you have anything else on that row or did you have a following row stating something?

    I do greatly appreciate the office of your anonymized C1, but I wouldn't want you to have to go through the time and effort of creating that just for me. If you could give me a hint re my questions in the first paragraph, that would be awesome!

    Many Thanks,

    A
  • Hi Alistair
    When I entered the sums in the price of shares column it did not total mine. Only if I tried putting them in last column £. You must start with heritable estate in Scotland, then moveable estate.
    I then put nil in for heritable in England and Wales. Then listed movable. I then did estate elsewhere. In the summary part you put the Totals in column 2 (description) . So for example, Estate in England and Wales - £500.

    Carried forward at the bottom of page 3 should be blank.
  • Awesome Pam - Many Thanks!
  • edited 20 January at 9:22PM
    mjsdaughtermjsdaughter Forumite
    1 posts
    MoneySaving Newbie
    edited 20 January at 9:22PM
    Hi there - would it be possible for someone to perhaps send me anonymised copies of your C1 returns at all, please? Feels like have been going round in circles, with a solicitor offering to 'check' my return for a mere high 3-figure sum! Any help on specific wording of docquets and inventory order etc would be much appreciated... Many thanks indeed
  • md26md26 Forumite
    7 posts
    Hi mjs,

    There's a service called "my probate partner" that will write your forms for you and they're very forthcoming with informal help on various estate matters.

    Hope that helps
  • Pam243Pam243 Forumite
    3 posts
    Hi Mjs
    What part of the document are you needing help with?
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