Grant of Confirmation

buddy9

Bluebird67 said:

Thanks so much @buddy9, that’s really helpful.
Listing the bank accounts and insurance policies as personal estate in England and Wales raises another question, if I may? HMRC’s notes on page 13 states:

‘If you’ve already obtained probate to the deceased’s estate elsewhere and are simply requiring Confirmation to the estate in Scotland, you only need to list that Scottish estate and the summary should reflect only that estate.’

I didn’t obtain probate as the bank and insurer didn’t require it to transfer the money but I’m now wondering if I have to list the accounts in the inventory at all as this money has already been paid out. That being the case, would I enter ‘nil’ for Estate in England and Wales but add the amount on to the figure in box 23 for IHT? If it’s not required for Confirmation this would bring the estate below the level for which a fee for Confirmation has to be paid.

A grant of probate in E&W for a person domiciled in E&W has the equivalent status in Scotland as Confirmation. The quoted paragraph would be relevant where the deceased was not domiciled in the UK, had estate in Scotland and E&W, and the executor needed both Probate and Confirmation to administer the estate.

I can only say that the inventory of a person domiciled in Scotland is intended to contain all the estate in the UK.

Planeahead

Had received confirmation granted in Scotland 6 months ago where the only estate was for the property and 2 bank accounts, we had only requested certificates for each of the bank accounts which were issued but it's now came to selling the property and now worried that we may need another certificate for the property that was shown on the estate in the confirmation application. 

Will we require a certificate to be issued specifically for the property and if so how would we go about doing this?

buddy9

Planeahead said:

Had received confirmation granted in Scotland 6 months ago where the only estate was for the property and 2 bank accounts, we had only requested certificates for each of the bank accounts which were issued but it's now came to selling the property and now worried that we may need another certificate for the property that was shown on the estate in the confirmation application. 

Will we require a certificate to be issued specifically for the property and if so how would we go about doing this?

You can ask the issuing court for a confirmation certificate for the house (fee payable) or you could use the original confirmation document for the conveyancing (but you won't get it back).

Bluebird67

Thanks once again, @buddy9, for such a clear and speedy response.

I'll list the accounts and policies under England and Wales as advised. I intend to enter the Santander online accounts as Santander UK plc. Bradford BD1 5AN, the address on the correspondence relating to the accounts, and the policy as Aviva Life and Pensions Ltd. Norwich NR1 3WG, as stated on settlement letter. Does this sound correct?

I've a couple of other quick questions I can't find answers to, if I may?

1. Do I write Executor or Executrix (I'm female)? I'm referred to as executor in the will but have just noticed the dropdown box on page 2 question 5.
2. The house is registered in the Sasines register and the stamp on the deeds includes a fiche and frame number. Do I include these numbers in the description of the house in the inventory?
   
3. Box 20. UTR. My father was not self-employed so didn't have one. Do I leave this box blank or write Not Known? Note suggests Not Known if you can't find one, but I presume he didn't have one.
4. My mother had an insurance policy she'd taken out on my father's life. Am I correct in thinking that I don't enter this in the inventory for confirmation but add it to value in box 23 (Box 11 figure plus policy amount)?

There are a couple of other points I'd like to check but I think you might have covered them in previous replies, so I'll try to find the answers there. Many thanks again for your invaluable help, and to everyone who has posted on this forum; it would be impossible to complete the C1 without you.

buddy9

Bluebird67 said:

I'll list the accounts and policies under England and Wales as advised. I intend to enter the Santander online accounts as Santander UK plc. Bradford BD1 5AN, the address on the correspondence relating to the accounts, and the policy as Aviva Life and Pensions Ltd. Norwich NR1 3WG, as stated on settlement letter. Does this sound correct? Given that the accounts and policies have been paid out already, the designations/addresses probably have minor importance.

1. Do I write Executor or Executrix (I'm female)? I'm referred to as executor in the will but have just noticed the dropdown box on page 2 question 5. Your choice.
2. The house is registered in the Sasines register and the stamp on the deeds includes a fiche and frame number. Do I include these numbers in the description of the house in the inventory? Not certain about this, but I think including the record volume fiche and frame number gives a better description but is not essential. (I presume you have found GRS example descriptions)
   
3. Box 20. UTR. My father was not self-employed so didn't have one. Do I leave this box blank or write Not Known? Note suggests Not Known if you can't find one, but I presume he didn't have one. Enter not known
4. My mother had an insurance policy she'd taken out on my father's life. Am I correct in thinking that I don't enter this in the inventory for confirmation but add it to value in box 23 (Box 11 figure plus policy amount)? Don't enter in the inventory for confirmation - don’t add it to the value in box 23

I have added my thoughts in bold above.

Bluebird67

Thanks @buddy9. So grateful for this. I think I'm now almost there. Have a good weekend.

chivas

This thread, and some others on this site have been incredibly useful for helping my mum fill out this form.
My dad died in March, and thankfully most accounts were jointly held.

I think I am about ready to submit, but I'm not fully confident on the Declaration and Inventory. If anyone could spare a moment to take a look I'd really appreciate it.

Also, the house value was made last year by an agent, as they were thinking about selling up. Is this ok to use, and is this declared correctly?

Bluebird67

Hi. I'm hoping to submit my C1 form tomorrow but would like to check a couple of points. My mother and I are executors of my late father's estate and I am the declarant. Does this sound correct for page 2 para 2?

That I am "The executor nominate and daughter of the said deceased, along with [name and address of mother], executor nominate and spouse of the deceased, conform to the will dated and signed [date of will] which is exhibited, docquetted and signed by me as relative hereto."

There is a legitim fund and I have yet to hear back from all entitled to claim. My father left everything to my mum in his will (they were married). The legitim fund isn't anywhere near IHT threshold. In box 25, should I just enter the amount of the unclaimed/undischarged legitim? If so, and those entitled to claim subsequently discharge their rights, do I then have to declare this on any form?

Small point, do I use titles when entering the names of the executors, i.e. Mrs, Miss etc.

Finally, the inventory goes over two pages. I have used form C1/C2 Combined (2022). I'm unsure whether to included pages 5 through 9 which only have Brought Forward, Carried Forward figures. @buddy9 suggested renumbering pages 10 and 11. How do I do that please? Many thanks again for all the invaluable help. 

buddy9

Bluebird67 said:

Hi. I'm hoping to submit my C1 form tomorrow but would like to check a couple of points. My mother and I are executors of my late father's estate and I am the declarant. Does this sound correct for page 2 para 2?

Some suggestions:

That I am 

along with [full name and address of mother], executor nominate of the deceased, conform to his will dated [date of will] which is exhibited, docquetted and signed by me as relative hereto and that I am the daughter of the said deceased and the said [full name] is the wife of the said deceased."

this assumes that names and addresses are the same as in the will

use full names.

If legitim isn't claimed or renounced, then the IHT rules are that it is treated as claimed for reducing spouse exemption. So if the whole net estate otherwise passes to the spouse, box 25, will equal the value of the unclaimed legitim. 

Don’t use titles when entering the names in para 2.

Renumbering pages 10 and 11. Put a pen through the printed page numbers and write in new numbers.

buddy9

chivas said:

This thread, and some others on this site have been incredibly useful for helping my mum fill out this form.
My dad died in March, and thankfully most accounts were jointly held.

Assuming that the executors are co-executors.

Full names should be used. 

I would amend the final part of para 2 slightly to read:

and that I am the wife of the said deceased and the said [insert full name] is the brother of the said deceased.

This assumes that the names and addresses of the deceased and the executors are as stated in the will. Also assuming that mum and dad were still married.

The house description looks ok if you are certain that there is no survivorship clause in the title - and that you intend to add the address in the inventory.

National savings products can be shown as moveable estate in Scotland. Perhaps the premium bond entry should include ‘registered holders number’.

The guidance in Currie is that for a bank account to be treated as estate in Scotland it must be specified as being at a Scottish branch,

If you will need a Confirmation Certificate to access items numbered 3, 4 and 5, I would give a fuller description.

You state that most accounts were jointly held. In Scotland, while a surviving joint account holder can continue to operate the account, if the deceased owned a share of the joint account, this share does not normally automatically pass to the surviving account holder. The share is part of the estate, and should be listed in the inventory accordingly.